Comparison Thread: Julius Caesar Elephant Denarius

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by IdesOfMarch01, Oct 18, 2017.

  1. AncientJoe

    AncientJoe Well-Known Member

    Finally crossed this one off of my list after finding the right example. It was by no means cheap for the type ($3K) but it ticks all of the boxes for me, except for the pedigree which it must have but I've yet to locate:

    CaesarElephant.jpg
     
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  3. Orfew

    Orfew Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus

    Superb example @AncientJoe. The details on the elephant are fantastic!
     
  4. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    Wow on that elephant. Your lighting is great and brings out some fantastic features. Great coin and nice to cross it off the list!
     
  5. Cucumbor

    Cucumbor Well-Known Member

    exceptionnal example, congrats !

    Q
     
  6. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random guy on the internet

    The way I pick the condition of my coins is if they maximize the quality-to-price ratio. I would be willing to pay twice as much for 100% increase in quality (say VF to choice EF), but I am not willing to pay twice as much for a 25% increase in quality (Say MS to choice MS). EVERY coin I have bought that satisfies this maximum I have been supremely content with.
     
  7. NormW

    NormW Student Of Coinology

    I bought the one that I use as my icon here, for my own 50th birthday 5 years ago. I paid $1500 at a cng auction. It was a big splurge. I would really like to own a portrait coin of old Julius... maybe on my hundreth birthday.
     
  8. Severus Alexander

    Severus Alexander find me at NumisForums

    Worth the wait, AJ, especially for the obverse. Stunning toning as well. I'd be curious to know exactly which boxes you wanted checked.

    Being super nitpicky (which I know–or is that just hope?–you appreciate): Too bad the wolf head is not more wolfy. Also the field looks a bit odd between the axe and the aspergillum. Doesn't quite look like flow lines. Artefact of the photo?
     
  9. AncientJoe

    AncientJoe Well-Known Member

    Thanks! I wanted a solid obverse in particular, with more than enough flan to hold the design. And, I wanted nice cabinet toning, a well-styled elephant, and a coin with an overall decent strike.

    Mine can definitely be improved, and maybe I eventually will upgrade it, but I'm a "bird in the hand" sort of collector and willing to eat the cost of a upgrade if one happened to come around.

    The field oddness is my main gripe with the coin, albeit not a deal breaker for me for this type. I suspect it is from an old deposit that was cleaned off, resulting in it not toning completely uniformly. There are still some slight deposits on the coin which aren't bothersome to me.

    The way in which I took this picture highlights the odd spot in favor of also resulting in a pop of iridescence. I think it's a true-to-life depiction of the coin and I didn't want to play with the lighting to hide it, although it undoubtedly could be done (yet another reason to always see coins in-hand before buying).
     
  10. 4to2centBC

    4to2centBC Well-Known Member

    I love the obverse and the toning on the reverse. The detail of your photo is fantastic, but it also led me to wonder what is going on here in the fields.

    JCden.jpg

    So, you suspect this is from an old collection? Perhaps because the cleaning marks are beneath a cabinet tone? You have piqued my curiosity.


    edit: appears we posted semi-concurrently
     
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  11. Severus Alexander

    Severus Alexander find me at NumisForums

    Thanks for the thorough and well-considered answer! Still lovin' the coin, I'm going to keep this tab open so I can gaze at that elephant a few more times. :)
     
  12. Nathan Waters

    Nathan Waters Member

    I am an ancient coin noob, and am carefully studying the information regarding fake coins. I only have one coin in my collection but am looking to add a second - which would be this coin.
    [​IMG]
    While studying this forum and others regarding fakes, the first things that stand out are the pitting on the raised portions of the elephant, but then noticing pitting throughout the coin too.

    When I look at other RRC 443 coins I do not see the pitting on the elephant, which is raising a red flag. The coin is available overseas with many many other coins for sale as well. The dealer is unknown to me, but with the high resolution detailed images i thought I could get a good POV on the coin before purchase.
    I apologize if I am posting in the wrong spot - I know how much that irks forum moderators and members. But you guys are all speaking about the exact coin I am trying to attain for my collection. Thank you!
    -Nathan

    wow @AncientJoe BEAUTIFUL coin
     
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  13. Severus Alexander

    Severus Alexander find me at NumisForums

    Do you have a weight for this coin?
     
  14. Nathan Waters

    Nathan Waters Member

    yes I do! thank you for your response. 3.41g and 18mm diameter. It seemed to check out weight-wise and size-wise from what I could see from other examples.

    and for anyone's curiosity sake the going price for this coin is $571 USD

    ***also, have any of you seen this? Somebody selling (presumably authentic) ancient coins embedded into rings - I would love to see what the reverse of this coin looks like outside of its embedded ring hilt here, the detail on the showing side and especially the finite detail on the elephants tail is what makes me so curious about the reverse sides details too
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2018
  15. Severus Alexander

    Severus Alexander find me at NumisForums

    Weight seems OK (though light enough that it could be a fourrée). This issue is a minefield for fakes, unfortunately, but the pitting you mention doesn't raise any red flags for me. I didn't find a match in any of the fakes databases.

    That said, with the mushy detail and pits I definitely wouldn't pay the nearly $600 for this coin. (Personally I don't like the dumpy elephant style either.) I would recommend waiting for a better one for less. :)

    [Later today, an Imperator contest match will be posted that you may be interested in... ;)]
     
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  16. Nathan Waters

    Nathan Waters Member

    You're definitely right about the mushy look of it, spot on. Thanks for reviewing your resources too I really appreciate that - I am coming back in after a 20 year break from collecting so I am still trying to find my bearing.

    I have many of these Caesars on my bookmarks now of various quality and various prices and I like your recommendation to wait.

    Imperator like I am seeing in my google search results? A game? Looks really fascinating. Thank you for the heads up!
     
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  17. Severus Alexander

    Severus Alexander find me at NumisForums

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