Lessons in problem coins: Whizzed.

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by C-B-D, Aug 5, 2018.

  1. Gregg

    Gregg Monster Toning

    It is the patch to the south of the U that got my attention - like thatch work scratching.
     
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  3. Kasia

    Kasia Got my learning hat on

    It was Brawny and was from the middle of a Pick-a-Size roll she had on a standing kitchen paper towel holder (brushed nickel finish). Details are important, because middle of the roll paper towels aren't necessarily softer but they have been protected and are still not wound tightly around the core. Sparkle is just a cheap knock-off brand and would impart minute flaws you could see with a 20X hastings triplet.
     
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  4. V. Kurt Bellman

    V. Kurt Bellman Yes, I'm blunt! Get over your "feeeeelings".

    I just assumed your avatar got its little claws in there. Light saber marks are more distinct.
     
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  5. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    There's something that should be becoming evident as a result of this thread. Whizzing, harsh cleaning, polishing, buffing, die wear, die polishing - all of these things create lines on a coin. And yet they all look different and they are all caused by different things - and they can all be distinguished from one another. Assuming of course that one takes the time to learn how to do so.

    Those with experience will typically recognize each of them at a glance. Those without experience often confuse them, thinking one is the other or that they are the same. It is also not uncommon to have lines caused by one or two or even more of these things on the same coin, and that usually leads to even more confusion and misidentification by those without the experience to recognize it for what it is.
     
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  6. V. Kurt Bellman

    V. Kurt Bellman Yes, I'm blunt! Get over your "feeeeelings".

    Aaaaaaaaaaaa-men! Then throw a little AT on top to disguise the evidence.
     
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  7. Gregg

    Gregg Monster Toning

    As it turns out, neither of these impact the technical grade:

    Mercury.jpg
     
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  8. V. Kurt Bellman

    V. Kurt Bellman Yes, I'm blunt! Get over your "feeeeelings".

    Oh, on this does "FB" stand for "fur-bearing"? That's some stout editing work there, fella!
     
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  9. SilverDollar2017

    SilverDollar2017 Morgan dollars

    Anyway, back on topic. :p (for me, at least.)

    North of EPU looks like circulation dings to me.

    Those lines on the rest of the coin appear to be metal flow lines.
     
  10. V. Kurt Bellman

    V. Kurt Bellman Yes, I'm blunt! Get over your "feeeeelings".

    Trying to remember without one nearby: Is that area near EPU a slightly raised plateau of field?
     
  11. John Skelton

    John Skelton Morgan man!

    So consider me one of many inexperienced, confused coin collectors. Would there by chance a book with illustrations specifically addressing the topic? I think it would be beneficial. And if there isn't, then I nominate you to write one!:D
     
  12. Dynoking

    Dynoking Well-Known Member

  13. SilverDollar2017

    SilverDollar2017 Morgan dollars

    Correct, the area north of EPU is slightly raised.
     
  14. V. Kurt Bellman

    V. Kurt Bellman Yes, I'm blunt! Get over your "feeeeelings".

    Thanks, for those that don’t know (new folks to the hobby) that means that area is less “protected” by nearby legends and devices and will show evidence of contact before other parts of the fields. It also CAN create anomalous flow line directions.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2018
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  15. LakeEffect

    LakeEffect Average Circulated

    Thanks for the discussion on the Mercury - I almost didn't post it but I'm glad I did. I guess I just don't look at coins under magnification on a regular basis so the flow lines looked odd - artificial- to me. I picked up some good pointers on observation and also sought out and found this old gem of a thread discussing flow lines and luster:

    https://www.cointalk.com/threads/luster-a-guide-for-beginners.58435/

    As far as "protected" areas of the field - I don't think it matters as far as rodent damage is concerned. Those suckers get into the most protected areas one can imagine and still wreak havoc.
     
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  16. Kirkuleez

    Kirkuleez 80 proof

    Here’s a good example of whizzing on a half cent that I got a while bank. I bought it as a whizzed coin because I liked it and it was cheap enough, but when I received it, I really didn’t see what NGC was seeing. The color was clearly wrong, but I couldn’t understand why NGC called it the way they did. It wasn’t until I posted a thread here on CT that someone spotted the reason for the bag. If you look at the fields at about 4:00, you can see where someone tried to cover a bag mark. 5C1C8BB6-F559-455B-BE2B-EAEF32BBB8CD.jpeg C9C98B12-C38D-491E-816F-687E4C7F252D.jpeg
     
  17. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    That's a good example Kirk of how, and why, the term whizzed is being used incorrectly, at least in one way, by the TPGs to describe coins like that.

    The term whizzed predates the TPGs, it's not something new and has been around for a long, long time. And when the term whizzed was used it was only used to describe a coin where the entire coin had been whizzed. Which of course is completely understandable because the very purpose of whizzing a coin is to simulate luster on a coin that has no luster. When only a small area is done like that, altered surfaces would be a much more accurate description.

    In today's world, as that coin clearly indicates, when even a small area is altered to hide a defect such as bag mark, they are using the term whizzed to describe it. But were you to go back a few years you would never find a coin like that described as having been whizzed. The term was reserved and only used when the entire coin had been whizzed.

    As I said in my first post in this thread, the term has been bastardized in recent years to cover a multitude of sins and is used in ways that it would have never been used before.
     
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  18. Kirkuleez

    Kirkuleez 80 proof

    The crazy thing to me is that the half cent came from Eric Newman’s collection and was cataloged as Unc red as you can see on his old paper flip. Was Eric the culprit here? I’ve never heard any stories suggesting that he was trying to deceive anyone, but this doesn’t seem right. 0669D12E-7294-4EE1-971F-0403133C424C.jpeg
     
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  19. C-B-D

    C-B-D Well-Known Member

    He wasn't the only owner of the coin...
     
  20. V. Kurt Bellman

    V. Kurt Bellman Yes, I'm blunt! Get over your "feeeeelings".

    This is an example of what drives some of us crazy about Doug. There's SOME point in history, I don't know precisely when, but @baseball21 at least thinks he does, that Doug would prefer that all terms became etched in brass for all time. I do appreciate that desire; I feel the same way about certain non-numismatic terms that society has changed. But the world simply isn't going to work like that - not anymore. The definition of EVERYTHING morphs, and we need to find ways to deal with that OTHER THAN griping about it or ignoring it.

    Now I realize the retort to that might be "if things don't mean one thing, they might end up meaning nothing". I sympathize.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2018
  21. Kirkuleez

    Kirkuleez 80 proof

    Clearly, but it just seems strange that the same guy who put together the finest collection of half cents ever assembled would have listed this one as he did. I’m not trying to accuse him of any sort of deception, I have no evidence of that, but it’s still curious. This coin is an EAC XF at best, so to call it red unc just doesn’t make much sense. The flip is of his hand and came with the coin as part of the auction.
     
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