1861 Dollar: ex Proof or Circulation Strike?

Good morning gentlemen,
Can you please look at this 1861 Dollar, and tell me whether in your opinion this is a proof, or rather a circulation strike?
The dealer i bought this from was of the opinion this could be a proof issue. The edges are a bit squared, as i think is indicative of proof strikes. Interestingly, from what i remember reading, circulation strikes of this, and the 1862 dates are actually rarer than the proofs.

As a matter of interest i remember also an article by D. Bowers where he mentioned that this, and the 1862 dollar are fairly scarce due to many of them being exported during the civil war to pay for the costs of the war. These civil war dates carry a great historical appeal in my opinion.

The coin is in pretty good condition, but it does have some edges dings and a small cut on liberties hair. The colour is dark grey/blue. I would say original. Please let me know also your opinions on net grade.
Thank you for your opinions.
Eduard

 

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Eduard
Let's get this over with quickly: I hate you.

Okay, now to business: That has to be an amazingly sharp strike -- so, my pure guess, is that it may be an impaired proof.
I don't remember ever seeing a strike that sharp on a circulation strike.
Very nice coin.

:thumb:

 

Is the area inside the shield on the reverse mirrored?

 

One thing is for sure... it's a beautiful piece.

It seems to have the squared rims, but I'm not sure I could certify it as proof even if I had it in hand.

I agree with Treashunt - that's a sharp strike.

(of course you realize "I hate you" is in jest ?)

 

The detail in the bird feathers, feet, and arrow feathers are something else! That coin has great eye appeal! If that's not a proof it's an incredible strike for a circulation piece. Thanks for sharing!!!!!!!!!

 

Thanks everybody for your comments.
I was trying to look, as Leadfoot had indicated, if there is reflectiveness in between the stripes in the shields. No matter how hard i strained my eyes, i could not see any, probably because that area is darkly toned (and now i have a headache!).
Actually the fields as a whole appear a little reflective.
Eduard

(900Fine, i do realize the " i hate you comments" are in jest, of course (happy smiley here!)).

 

Then I suspect it is a well-struck business strike. All the proofs I've seen "flash" when light is reflected off of them, even those darkly toned. That said, I am anything but an expert in seated dollar proof coinage, so take my opinion FWIW...Mike

 

Eduard, I will not hate you, if you adopt me.

 

Or just remember me in your will...

 

Paging Mr. Feld. Mark Feld, please report to this thread. Paging Mr. Feld.

 

Eduard
Just a thought:
How does the reeding look?

Is it unusually sharp? Any reflectivity between the reeds?
Also: hard to tell from the pictures, but, how squared off is the rim?
Have you ever compared it to a regular strike? (one that you know is an unc or a circualtion strike).

If that isn't a proof-- then it is probably the best circulation strike EVER!

Since you have mentioned that you have bought mostly from auctions in the past:
How was the lot described? Whose auction house?

 

Good Morning gentlemen,
Here are a few more pictures of the 1861, this time side by side with another similar coin (1862). Maybe this shows better that the edges of the 1861 seemed more "squarish" than usual.
Tres, i cannot see any luster in between the ridges on the edge reeding, but maybe that is just my eyes (which are far from good). But i think that the edge reeding is very sharp compared to another similar coin.
You asked about the opinion of the vendor: actually this was bought not at auction, but from J.Kern, a very good dealer i bought some coins from way back then (maybe he is still in business?). It was his opinion this could be a proof issue.
Once again, thank you for all your comments.
Regards,
Eduard

 

eduared:
I am glad that you 'just happened to have that 1862 handy' for reference.
The more that I stare at the 1861 the more that I think that it may be a mishandled proof.
Either way, an amazing coin!

 

I've never met the guy, but his shop is within driving---Maybe sometime I'll have to take a day and visit his shop. I hear that you have to call ahead and set up a time to go as he just doesn't allow walk-ins.

Speedy

 

The sharpness of detail as compared to that seen in a number of images of business strikes I just viewed, leads me to believe that it is an impaired Proof. Please note that I do not claim to be positive about that.

 

Eduard,

I have no idea as to whether the coin is an impaired Proof or just a well struck specimen made for circulation! However, it is a nice piece and one that any Collector would be honored to own! I found an article written on the 1861 Proof Silver Dollars that you might find interesting and will include the link below. It seems that there may be a lot less of the Proofs survived being melted than actually is thought and the coin are probably much more rarer than what is currently believed or known! I think that it is a coin that would be best to submit to a top tier grading company that would definitely answer the question as to whether it is a Proof or a Circulation strike. I also think that based on the article and other information, that the value of the Proofs will eventually exceed the Circulation strikes as their' true rarity becomes more known. If you find that the coin is in fact a Proof, then it may behove you to seek out the other Proofs made for that year as when put together in a 7 piece 1861 Proof Set (1c, 3c, 1/2 Dime, Dime, Quarter Dollar, Half Dollar and Silver Dollar), then they become exceedingly Rare! The price of the 3c, 1/2 Dime, Dime and Quarter Dollar are much easier to swallow since they range from about $750 to under $2,000 but the price of the 1c and Half dollar will generally set you back $3,000 to $6,000 a piece. It is hard to determine what a complete set would be valued at since I can find no records of one being sold. However, i would venture that a 7 piece graded and autenticated complete set would fetch well over $50,000 if one ever came up for auction and would not be surprised if it went for around $100,000!

Whatever you decide to do with the coin, thanks for sharing such a beautiful piece with us here at Coin Talk!

http://www.alaskacoinexchange.com/Articles/Proof Set Of 1861.htm


Frank

 

Eduard - I don't know how you do it, but keep doing it. Another really nice coin. And please keep sharing them with us. I really like seeing these nice coins.

 

Before reading any of the other posts in the thread, I was of the opinion that it was an impaired proof. The surfaces have the right look to me, similar to many Gobrecht Dollars that are impaired proofs.

 

Thank you everybody for your comments. I was always keen to find coins minted during the U.S civil war, and i was happy to find this one with Jonathan Kern, and an 1862 and 1863 with a dealer in N.Y.
Frank, i thank you warmly for all of the information you have given me about the proof issues, and for linking me to that article. It is very interesting! In fact, i was initially hoping that this coin would be a circulation strike, as they are, at least according to what i have previously read, scarcer than proof strikes. But this article seems to indicate the contrary, and it would ne nice if this was a proof, even if impaired or lightly circulated. Interesting comments you made about building a set of 1861 proofs. I will need to think about that....
Once again thank you Frank, and everybody for your comments and interest!
With regards,
Eduard