What price should you expect to pay at a coin show?

This was a great off-topic post and I felt that it deserved it's own thread - so here goes:

This sounds like a comment made out of frustration but the big guy always has the advantage over the little guy - this has always been the way of business... As a small business you need to find a way to separate yourself from the others.

I am an average Joe who doesn't spend a ton of money at any local shops or shows. I spend more online only because I feel I get better prices - the sacrifice is probably the quality of the coins. At a show you can pick the best set for the price. Pictures tend to hide many of the things you would notice with the coins in-hand.

Okay to the real meat of the post - what price should I expect to pay at a show? Should I be able to walk up to a dealer and flash a copy of the grey sheet and say this (ask) is the price I would like to pay?

I have done this and have had various reactions. One guy (who's shop I now go into from time-to-time) flat out told me that pricing is only for dealers and wanted 20% above ask for the 56 proof set I was looking at. I moved on. I mostly buy supplies there and probably will never quite forget his reaction or mark-up. Other dealers have told me they payed too much for the coins to let them go at that price - I can respect that but generally I move on when I hear it. His situation shouldn't be my loss. As posted in the other thread - many times the dealer will pull out a copy of the Grey sheet and show me the ask price. It is hard not to expect to pay ask when it's encouraged by others.

Personally I feel if dealers are getting the coins at bid - ask is not a bad deal for them. Easy for me to say!!! I am not trying to insult anyone by thinking this way and if it is disrespectful in any way the dealer should simply say I cannot let it go at that price. In the end, they know what margin they need to reach to survive and I can respect that - but it may mean that I need to buy from someone else. If I want it bad enough - believe me I will pay a little extra for it.

What are your thoughts?

 

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well i do think that a 8-20% markup isnt too bad- I mean this is what they live on and they need to pay for the table and for transportation

The prices range for me roughly 3 % over ask at one dealer to under bid (he says that he disregards price guides and sell them based off what he paid) Keep in mind here i am a YN and these are only 300-500 dollar coins not 10 dollar coins where they need to get a better margin or 3000 dollar coins where even a small margin is alot of money

 

It completely depends upon the coin and the dealer, and as much as people would like a simple answer, it doesn't work that way.

I try to handle especially nice coins and often pay over CDN "ask". While some dealers will stretch more than I do, many others won't pay over CDN "bid". And the coins we carry might vary considerably in quality and appeal, even if the assigned grades are the same.

Also, certain coins and types are far more likely than others to be able to be bought at or close to "bid" levels. Generic coins which are typically available in large quantities might even be available at CDN "bid", but rarer and/or more popular coins might not be available at anywhere close to "bid".

I can tell you that buyers (whether dealers or collectors) who insist on sticking to a particular/modest percentage above "bid" will probably end up with common and/or unimpressive coins in their collections.

 

I don't think it's fair to say only the "big guys" buy at 20-30. In my experience, all dealers, large and small, are aggressive when buying coins. Rape and pillage is not too strong a term in my opinion. The average purchase for many is someone walking in off the street with their dead grandfather's collection asking to unload it at any price. Most of these guys make money hand over fist on the buy side.

That said, I don't begrudge anyone the ability to set whatever price they want for their product. However, I reserve the right to pass on their product, and even provide verbal feedback on their prices in the event I pass. The person who made that statement is IMO trying to get people on both ends. That's their right. I stop short of calling this practice unethical, but in all honesty, these dealers are out to try to screw people.

Attempting to sell a product at greater than the stated market rate is the very definition of a screw-job, is it not?

 

That is an understatement

If you are often paying over "ask" (I think I understand the context of the statement) I had better rethink how I sometimes react! Not that I ever react badly and I am always as polite as I can be - but sometimes I feel like the guy just wants to overcharge me.

(Just checking - I assume you speak of top tier slabbed coins) I always hate to hear this but it just reinforces the comments by the experienced people here - buy the coin - not the slab.

I think most of what I have bought to date is more of the former than the latter. I think I understand that and it influences my buying behaviour. I'm just getting started and tend not to risk buying high end coins due to lack of experience and self imposed spending limits. Most of my coins fit into that common and unfortunately sometimes unimpressive category.

This is ALL great advice but a bit scary for the common collector that wants to jump to higher-end coins. Understanding the complexities of "how high should I go for this coin" could be the difference between a good deal and a really bad deal that makes you want to consider a new hobby.

Thank you Mark for your feedback!!!

 

In the end - I want to pay a fair market price regardless if it's a common coin or a high-end coin.

I would expect a $300-$500 coin should be a higher grade/uncommon coin unless you are only buying gold. If they are uncommon and/or in demand then yes I understand the premium over ask. If they are common coins that most dealers cannot get rid of on any given day - then I think they would be happy to unload it with any profit involved.

 

Basically in a sense I pay what I want to pay. If I see a coin that has amazing eye appeal, or is real nice and hard to find, or other things, I might pay a little more than the "average". But don't get me wrong, I still like to make a deal most of the time. But, my thought is, pay what you want to pay. Who cares if you bought that $80 Morgan, but it's average is $60, if you like it, and you really wanted it, I don't see any problem with that. Buy what you like, pay what you like. Sorry about my rant, just my opinion, and have thought about this for awhile. I'm gonna shut up now.

Phoenix

 

LOL - Thanks for your very honest opinion. This is the part I struggle with - I know some coins are going to be more popular and some have much greater eye appeal so how do I get to a price that is fair. Some of these coins will sell quickly at above ask - as they probably should. Does that mean the buyer gets screwed - na - I don't think so.

I cannot even take into the equation how much the dealer paid for them! One - I don't care who they took to the cleaner on their buy side - that's between them and the person they bought from. Two - If I think I'm getting ripped on the buying price - I just don't go back. If he finds other people willing to pay more than me - it's not my loss and good for him. IMO - People allow dealers to do bad things.

Thanks again for the reply! :smile

 

Your rant - how about mine ...

You have to have a starting place though! You do - I'm sorry, but it's based on something. Then I agree - you should move based on the coin, demand, and desire.

That starting place is the hard part for me - that's all.

Thanks as always Phoenix! :smile

 

I have no problem offering the bid price to a dealer who shows me the grey sheet value of a certain coin. If he says no, then we start dealing to get the best price that day. I feel that if a dealer doesn't hesitate to show a buyer the bid price, then you can bet that he got it for well under bid and will still make a profit if sold at that price.

 

Yes, I was speaking of "top tier slabs" and in my case, almost exclusively NGC and PCGS coins, as that is primarily what I deal in.

Caution and patience should serve you well and they can be especially important if you are branching out into new and/or pricier areas. Hopefully you will never buy any coin you're not comfortable with - there will almost always be another opportunity.

Below are a few real-life examples of what I paid compared to CDN bid (or ask, if noted) for coins I own. I am, however, omitting the type and date of each, so as to avoid spamming the forum. In each case I probably could have acquired other (inferior pieces) for at least 10% less.

Coin A: CDN ask $190; my cost $230

Coin B: CDN bid $2650; my cost $2600

Coin C: CDN ask $275; my cost $288

Coin D: CDN $900; my cost $1000

 

Lol, okay, here's more too my rant :

Exactly. You do need a starting place, but still take most of the price guides and all out there with a grain of salt. They are just that, guides. If I buy a coin I like, but Oh no! That guide over there says I should have paid this much for it, and that one over there says this much, some people will look at that persay as a numismatic sin.

I like to use guides and greysheet and all to give me a bit of a ballpark figure, but that's about it. If I pay $5 over ask, so what? Like grading, I think when it comes to how much you should pay, I think it is subjective.

Please don't get me wrong at all, I have absolutely no problem with coin price guides, or anything like that, but my only rant and problem is when it turns from a starting point and ball park figure, to what you should pay for a coin or numismatic item.

Please forgive me for my rant, and I am sorry for hi-jacking your thread USS. This is all just my opinion, and I could be way off and totally wrong. That's always my little disclaimer persay, lol. I am done now, thanks for the neat thread USS!

Phoenix

 

Not to show how jaded I am but I care as much about a coin dealers money situation as they do mine when it comes to coin prices. I want to get the coin as cheap as possible and they want to make money off the coin...No coin dealer cares what kind of deal I make...they arent saying 'well he works hard for his money and deserves to keep some of it' I assume a coin dealer has NEVER sold me a coin that he didnt make a profit on even when I have bought it for what I believe to be cheap...that just means he bought it even cheaper.

I do notice I get better deals at coin shows on world coins...not so much ancients. Mostly because no shipping...mostly when a dealer has gone down on a price is when it was overpriced in the first place and they went down to book value after I examine the guide at home.

I used to think it was better to buy from coin dealers whose rent and food weren't dependant on making that extra profit on a coin...as I have recieved great deals from sellers like these in the past...I then find myself very satisfied with the prices on some coins I bought from large volume sellers as they are also able to go down a bit on price because of volume.

Unfortunately that leaves the chaps who have been the most expensive in my opinion...the smaller guy professional dealer with rent and food hanging on the price of the coin and not quite enough business to enable them to give as good of deals because they cant make it up in volume sales.

 

Thanks Mark - that is somewhat of an informative post - I guess the question that comes to mind is the venue for those 4 purchases. Shows/B&M shop (yours or a dealer you bought from)/Auction House/etc. You don't have to (and I wouldn't expect you to) share that information - it was just a passing thought as to if the environment affected the price. One of the reasons I don't need an answer is because there are not enough data points to form any kind of opinion. Your purpose was to demonstrate that sometimes even dealers pay above bid and it's a point I appreciate! Thanks...

 

No - thank you for taking the time to give a sincere answer. That is what I was looking for after all! I agree - there is no such thing as a hard and fast rule for a price. Thanks again!

 

USS656 these coins are not gold they are indemand type coins that i think i could sell to any dealer that is not a specialist

do you think they take as big a markup on unslabed coins?

 

I don't mind at all, telling you that those were each purchases from dealers at large coin shows. That is where I obtain most of my inventory, though I also buy out of auctions and from clients and the public.

 

Usually when I plan to attend a show I have a list of coins I'm looking for and never stray from that list, no matter how tempted I am. I do this so I can set the prices for the coins I'm wanting to aquire. I'll spend a week or so looking through recent auction records and online sells of coins and then set a top price at which those coins should sell at and what I can expect to pay for them. If they want more at a show, I pass, as I know I can buy at a better price elsewhere. If the difference is a matter of a few bucks, I'll budge and buy. This way I don't overpay and I know what to expect. But, to be honest, most of the shows I've attended, the dealers have all had very reasonable prices and have always been willing to work with people interested in buying.
Guy~

 

Kind-of figured they were in-demand coins but I'm not sure I understand your question???

I would figure that if you are buying at that level that you should know what you are doing and from that I would assume that you should be able to sell anything you buy with no loss or minimal loss on a rare poor purchase (and again at that level that cannot happen too often I would hope). I believe that everyone buying on occasion makes a bad decision - we are human after all.

As far as mark-up I would think dealers get better margins on selling coins that were unslabbed when they bought them.

Thanks for the post - I hope I answered your question.

 

Thanks Guy - I have only been to a half dozen small shows so I am still trying to get comfortable with the bartering aspect. I have done similar things just probably not enough of it. I do try to stay close to bid only because I as still new at it. The bad thing is that I am not as disciplined when I buy online.

Best Regards

Darryl