1868 U.S. Half Dime proof or mint strike?

Your opinion....

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

I want to call it a proof but not sure. My old book talks about these having a different date placement but I can't tell the difference.

 

It's definitely a lovely strike... I too am not sure.

What did PCGS call it - since they had it in hand and could actually examine the edge more closely?

 

Looks like a proof in my opinion...

 

Not an expert on this denomination, but due to the clashing in the obverse field im going to say business strike.

 

First glance looks proof

 

It is a business strike. The date on a proof is lower and closer to the dentils and inner rim. From what I looked at a high end business strike tends to look a lot like a cameo proof in this year, but the rims are much more squared off and thicker on a proof.

 

Business for sure. If it were proof, you could see the raised reeding much more defined on the edge, even in those cropped pics.

 

My guess is a MS and is only a guess...rounded edges, light abrasion, old cleaning?...looks proof because of dark toning.

 

I wish I could help, but pretty coin either way.

 

I will give this a little more time for other members here to voice their opinions.
Here's some facts mintage of proof strikes 600! Mintage of Philadelphia businees strikes 88,600, mintage of San Francisco strikes 280,000.
Next question survival rate of the Philly mint strikes estimate? Survival rate of the 600 proofs? On a percentage basis .....

The number of Seated silver proofs struck for each denomination between 1858 and 1873 must refelect the number of sets delivered for said year. The exception 1873 the year the series were abolished. This fact is a factor as there were years thar said sets were carried over and offered for sale,as well others where mintages were melted year end before the next year production began.
Factor in the history of the 1860's both pre and post civil war period.
Other considerations die pairs and usages....unfortunately other than the 6 known reverses used in San Francisco there are no other written records to confirm any hard data.
Based on what we do know that proof dies were repurposed and used to strike mint state specimens, how does one fully determine if the coin in question is or isn't a proof strike?
After all the number of known factors to deliver an certain opion would surely be a crap shoot at best.
Now on can argue my last statement ,however can one really justify their opions unless one can compare survivors and or written records of said specimen.
Meaning a family record passed down showing providence of purchase of said proof coin.
Remember there's NO written records of die marriages in proofs or mint state coins. And only 6 reverses known from the San Francisco mint.
What is known is proof dies the right ribbon did not touch the wreath, so any void between the ribbon end tips, and wreath means a proof reverse die was used in the strike.

 

Folks who authenticate these things have the UNQUESTIONABLE Proofs pinned down by die state using die polish that is not visible in your images. Without that, it is just a guess. I'll play along as there is nothing to lose in a guessing game.

I'll agree with the guys who say its a Proof as I'm too lazy and uninterested (because you really don't need help as you have the slab) to look up the date placement in order to narrow down my guess. Someone said the date is placed wrong and that may nail it as an MS.

Color: PR
Flat rims + wire: PR
Lack of Marks: PR

I might see a clash since someone did: MS
Someone said Date Placement: MS (??)

IMO, this discussion would have been a great GTG with a Proof being a possibility.

 

I was looking at the images on CoinFacts for the date placement. I first thought proof but went blind trying to figure it out.

 

Let's hope it is MS. In the Graysheet, assuming a grade of 64, a MS-64 is $775 and the Proof-64 is only $650. Not a large difference.

 

According to Valentine there are these matches. 68 V-1 , & V-2 in which V-1 were proof dies on the 68 s V-1, V-1a, & V-1b

 

So Mike my question to your post is why are premium on a mint state coin over a proof since the mintages were so far apart,and...... proof dies were used to strike mint state coins?
Also again how can one determine for sure without written records?

 

It's a matter of survival. The Proofs got saved and well taken care of for the most part while the MS coins mostly got spent. I don't have the population numbers on hand, but for many dates you will find a larger population for PCGS and NGC in Proof than MS.

 

What percentage of 600 compared to 88,600 ? And again of the 88,600 how many punched using proof dies?
The ratio is 1 to 147.5 or is it?

 

My reason for this post goes back to a members here purchase of an 1868 proof h 10.
His is PCGS graded as a proof which I totally disagree.see image below.
My point isn't to poke at him or his choice of purchase but to bring to light the fact that durring this time frame there were very few written records of dies or proof coinage.
There was a record of 600 proofs minted in 1868 and then the story goes on to say that the dies were used to mint mint state coins .
Durring this time the mint also did melt unsold proofs as well as to offer in some years pryor years proof coins for sale....however again nothing etched in stone as to how many were disposed of or how many were sold!
This coin it is my belief that it was minted using proof dies but isn't a proof coin so to speak.
I see in the image either wear on the shield only judging from a photo image not having the coin in hand....that said the grade is incorrect! If my take is wrong then the areas in question on the coin are strike. In which case the proof die was reworked and the rubs seen on the coin were from the mint repurposing the die as I see rust pits as well as polish lines on the specimen. Which meant that for sure proof dies were put back in service to mint regular coinage.
Another fact known to support is the right ribbon isn't touching the wreath. A true die marker which proves that at least the reverse die was used from a pair of proof dies.

The coin in question I posted this morning has some pitting also plus again the tip of the ribbon is void of the wreath.
That said your all were correct in your guesses.....as who can be assured 100% without any providence in writing that the coin was purchased as a proof.
One other factor is that the head coiner took all proofs strikes to the mint director to hold. As well the mint director had full control of proof dies which were locked in his safe.

My point again can one be sure without a doupt that a coin minted durring this time peroid are in fact a proof strike?
With the numbers so low , survival rate in decline,no written records finding a matched pair is extremely hard to do....I've done it 1 time on a thrime that C.B.D.
had and that write up was featured. However most all experts will say to you show me another...and then I can confirm.....

 

One other note to those whom were working the date placements compare the ms 64 to the proof like twins.