Don't Go Riding Without Your Cloak

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by David Atherton, Jun 26, 2018.

  1. David Atherton

    David Atherton Flavian Fanatic

    Recently, I was able to obtain a very rare Domitian as Caesar denarius. I've been wanting one of these for quite sometime!

    V539.jpg Domitian as Caesar
    AR Denarius, 3.17g
    Rome mint, 73 AD (Vespasian)
    RIC 539 (R). BMC 122. RSC 665.
    Obv: CAES AVG F DOMITIAN COS II; Head of Domitian, laureate, bearded, r.
    Rev: No legend; Domitian on horse l.; cloak flying out behind, r. hand raised, sceptre in l.
    Acquired from NumisCorner, June 2018.

    This is the first denarius struck at Rome for Domitian as Caesar. Fittingly, it commemorates Domitian's appearance at Vespasian and Titus' joint Jewish War Triumph - 'while taking part in the Judaean triumph, he rode on a white horse' (Suetonius, Domitian, ii), which was the normal conduct for a young prince on such occasions. The type was struck in three variants: firstly, with a clockwise obverse legend and DOMITIAN fully spelled out, as we see here. Secondly, it would be shortened to DOMIT, with the legend still running clockwise. Lastly, the legend direction would change to counter clockwise with DOMIT. The first two variants are quite rare, the last relatively common. On this coin we see a cloak flying out from behind Domitian. This interesting detail only appears on a few coins of the first variant and does not show up on subsequent issues of the type.

    Here are my examples of the other two variants.

    V541.jpg
    Domitian as Caesar
    AR Denarius, 3.46g
    Rome mint, 73 AD (Vespasian)
    RIC 541 (R2). BMC 129 var. RSC 664.
    Obv: CAES AVG F DOMIT COS II; Head of Domitian, laureate, bearded, r.
    Rev: No legend; Domitian on horse l.; r. hand raised, sceptre in l.
    Ex Gemini X, 13 January 2013, Harry N. Sneh Collection, lot 701. = Helios, ebay, 29 November 2010 (A. Lynn Collection).

    V680.jpg
    Domitian as Caesar
    AR Denarius, 3.15g
    Rome mint, 73 AD (Vespasian)
    RIC 680 (C). BMC 129. RSC 664.
    Obv: CAES AVG F DOMIT COS II; Head of Domitian, laureate, bearded, r.
    Rev: No legend; Domitian on horse l.; r. hand raised, sceptre in l.
    Ex Berk 146, 29 November 2005, lot 363.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2018
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  3. Mat

    Mat Ancient Coincoholic

    Very nice, love the dirty look of it.
     
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  4. Andres2

    Andres2 Well-Known Member

    Great collection of Domitian on horseback .
    later in life he upgraded to a winged horse :)

    P1160728pegasus2.jpg
     
  5. Orfew

    Orfew Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus

    Congrats David. This is a coin with an interesting story.
     
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  6. dadams

    dadams Well-Known Member

    Nice collection David! I really enjoy seeing and learning about the different varieties you present. If I had to choose one Flavian as a favorite I guess it'd have to be Domitian as the other two were fully responsible for the destruction of the Second Temple, but Domitian wasn't actually there.

    Here is an article I found interesting and informative: The Jewish War and Rome's Urban Renewal
     
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  7. TheRed

    TheRed Well-Known Member

    Congrats on another great coin David, you have some very interesting coins with wonderful history behind them.
     
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  8. David Atherton

    David Atherton Flavian Fanatic

    Thanks for the interesting link. It's a good summarisation of modern scholarship concerning the Jewish War and Flavian propaganda - in which the above coins no doubt played a small role.
     
  9. zumbly

    zumbly Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana

    What a great coin, David. Congrats! The other two are lovely as well. I have an example of the common one and notice that for this issue the reverse seems to come in two distinct styles, those like yours where the anepigraphic reverse design is larger and takes up most of the flan, and others like mine where it is smaller.

    domitian denarius400.jpg
     
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  10. ro1974

    ro1974 Well-Known Member

    Nice coin
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2018
  11. ro1974

    ro1974 Well-Known Member

    2091899.m.jpg
    DOMITIAN (Caesar, 69-81). Denarius. Rome.
    Obv: CAES AVG F DOMITIAN COS II.
    Laureate head right.
    Rev: Domitian on prancing horse left, raising hand and holding sceptre.
    RIC² 539 (Vespasian).
    Condition: Very fine.
    Weight: 2.74 g.
    Diameter: 19 mm.
     
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  12. ro1974

    ro1974 Well-Known Member

    1487157.m.jpg
    Domitian as Caesar. 70-81 AD. Denarius, 3.46g. (h). Rome, 73 AD. Obv: CAES AVG F - DOMIT COS II (clockwise) Head laureate right. Rx: No legend, Domitian, togate, without flying cloak, on horse prancing left, raising right hand and holding scepter topped by human bust in left. RIC 541 (R2). Cohen 664 (5 Fr.). BM 129 var. Paris 105 var. Interesting portrait. VF.
    Ex Harry N. Sneh Collection, purchased from Helios, eBay, 29 November 2010 (A. Lynn Collection) .
    This is the second earliest denarius struck for Domitian as Caesar, with the obverse legend still running clockwise but now shortening DOMITIAN to DOMIT and breaking above the portrait, and without the cloak flying from Domitian's shoulder on the reverse. Very rare: RIC 541 cites this denarius from Oxford and Vienna and Harlan Berk had a specimen in stock a number of years ago, but there are no examples in BMC,

    Are both examples commeratives the war, there are 2
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2018
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  13. David Atherton

    David Atherton Flavian Fanatic

    The type itself, regardless of variant, commemorates Domitian's role in the Triumph. I have illustrated all three variants in my first post.
     
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  14. David Atherton

    David Atherton Flavian Fanatic

    I wonder how much of this was engraver's whim? For instance, the cloak on the OP coin - it's very likely the cloak was on the very earliest version of the type. Later, the type was simplified by the disappearance of the cloak. Was this minor change due to the engravers tiring of depicting it or was this direction from the 'top'? Without surviving mint records, our efforts to figure out such questions are almost futile. It's fun to think about them though.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2018
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  15. Carausius

    Carausius Brother, can you spare a sestertius?

    Speaking of cloaks, I recently acquired this scarce Roman Republican AR Denarius, Crawford 198/1. The primary marker for the type is the shape of the Dioscurus' cloak. Specifically, the cloak is longer at the top than the bottom, looking like a wing. These are frequently misattributed as common Crawford 53s. In fact, I bought this coin
    as a misattributed 53. The reverses of these coins are rarely so well-centered to clearly show the three-sided frame around ROMA.

    Craw198Den.jpg

    Rome. The Republic.
    Anonymous, 157-156 BCE.
    AR Denarius (4.18 g; 18 mm).
    Rome mint.

    Obv: Helmeted head of Roma facing right with peaked visor and earring of long, single drop; X (mark-of-value = 10 asses), behind.

    Rev: The Dioscuri galloping right holding spears; two stars above; ROMA below in linear frame.

    Crawford 198/1; BMCRR (Italy) 390; Brinkman 43.
     
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  16. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    WOW, NICE @Carausius ! Love that Denarius. That be SLAMMIN'!

    I have an AE Triens from that series...

    RR Anon AE Triens 157-156 BC Minerva Prow RARE Cr 198B-3 S 989.jpg
    RR 157-156 Triens - agora - craw 198b-3 sear989.JPG
    Anonymous. 157-156 B.C. AE triens (21.7 mm, 6.72 g, 1 h). Rome mint. Helmeted head of Minerva right; four pellets above / ROMA, prow of galley right; four pellets below. Crawford 198B/3; Sydenham 302b. VF, cleaned.
    Ex RBW collection (not in previous sales); Elsen 37 (December 17 1994) lot 214.
    Very Rare, only two specimens in Paris. Sear 989 (hmmm...I saw 3, including mine, on ACSearch - they all said VERY Rare)
    Me: SCARCE
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2018
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  17. Andres2

    Andres2 Well-Known Member

    Is this number 5 ? came also from the Jean Elsen auction 1994 :)

    P1150604triens brassy.jpg

    and another one from Jean:

    P1150604triensdark no text.jpg

    both were part of a big lot bought from CNG in 2016
     
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  18. David Atherton

    David Atherton Flavian Fanatic

    An utterly fantastic denarius!
     
  19. dlhill132

    dlhill132 Member

    Another nice one David!

    Doug
     
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