Hello Guys, Given that most of my coins are "raw" I decied to buy some encapsulated coins just recently, both PCGS and ANACS. Now i read that counterfeit NCG slabs have turned up, and am wondering just how safe this is? I bought my slabs from an eBAY vendor, and they all look OK to me. It is mostly early coins. Particularly with regard to all of the numbering on the slabs i was wondering if there is anyway to check up on the coins? What are your thoughts on this. It certainly seems that you cannot trrust anybody anymore! Sad times... Eduard
I believe that ANACS slabs have already been counterfeited also. Most of the counterfeit coins in counterfeit slabs appear to have been sold via Ebay by sellers in China, but I expect it to spread before long. I also believe that it is now even more important than ever to buy (even slabbed) coins from well known sellers with whom you have a full return privilege and recourse if there is a problem. If you have images of the coins or links to the listings I'd be happy to take a look.
most purchases involving counterfeit pieces can be averted with a few hours of research. in the event that the buyer did his/her homework and still ends up with a bogus piece; hopefully, the seller will buy it back. ''It certainly seems that you cannot trrust [sic] anybody anymore! Sad times...'' counterfeiting has been around since the inception of monetary systems...only now instead of trying to deceive merchants, they are used to deceive collectors on the secondary market. as with all rare collectibles...memorabilia, art, livestock, etc...deception is just the nature of the beast and something that anyone involved in any level of the hobby must be aware of and deal with because it will be around as long as it is lucrative.
I agree with that, but think that due to third party grading, many buyers let their guards down and don't look at the coins (or even the holders) as carefully as they should. And unfortunately, while some of the counterfeits are easy to detect, not all of them are.
''... many buyers let their guards down and don't look at the coins (or even the holders) as carefully as they should.'' imo, the buyer's haste merits equal blame as those knowingly or unknowingly distributing feits. my point is, with the exception of newcomers to the hobby, anyone who has picked up any numis. lit or has been on the web is fully aware of the risk of counterfeits and fully aware of all the resources available to limit those risks. i believe that the ''wild west'' mentality is what draws, or keeps, many collectors in the hobby. i love to use my knowledge to pick dealers or fellow collectors but, i am aware that others are trying to do the same to certain pieces in my collection...and i must use the same knowledge to prevent that from happening. below is a link to a great story that exemplifies this ''wild west'' mentality. http://www.pdxcoinclub.org/convention2005/bustHalf.html
While you are not alone in that sentiment, no matter how lazy or careless a buyer might be, I don't think he deserves equal blame compared to a seller who knowingly engages in fraudulent activities.
Mark, i will take some pictures of my slabs tomorrow for your comments. Thanks. I am pretty sure i am safe with mine, but this issue of fake slabs really got me thinking. Weren't slabs, supposed to be the ultimate deterrent? I know that collectors MUST be at knowledgeable about the coins they buy, and spend their hard earned money on, but fake coins in fake slabs is double danger: no way to take out the coin to examine edges, weights, surface appearance closely. How about the serial numbers on the slabs? what do they mean? if they refer to a particular coin, then that is probably a way to certify it REALLY was slabbed by a TPG. Eduard
Unfortunately, you can't necessarily rely on the serial/ID numbers either. Very recently I reported an Ebay seller to Ebay and NGC. The seller was offering counterfeit coins in counterfeit NGC slabs with counterfeit grading labels which had legitimate/verified coin ID numbers on them.
all of the counterfeit slabs [anacs, icg, and ngc] i have seen all have the correct id numbers on the inserts that correspond to the ''correct'' type, year,and date so, that is not a reliable way to detirmine whether or not the plastic is legit or not
Eduard, IMO, your best defense to counterfeits has been, and continues to be, to purchase your coins (in TPG slabs) from a well-respected professional who stands behind their coins...Mike
Guys, Here are pictures of some of the PCGS slabs i bought. It is very unusual to find slabbed US coins over here. I bought them from an established eBAY seller who said he was dissolving his US collection. I liked the coins, and i cannot detect anything unusual, at least as far as the coins themselves is concerned. They are quite appealing. I have been looking for these types to complete my collection, and the 1795 Draped Bust dollar had elluded me thus far. I was happy to find one in a PCGS slab. My only comment is that PCGS appears quite quite liberal with their grading. Other than that, i am happy. These are the first PCGS slabs i have ever bought. Never had one before. Looking forward to your comments given the recent apperance of fake NGC slabs. There is a return privilege on these coins which the seller has assured me he will honor if needed. I think (hope) i will not need it. regards, Eduard PS- very difficult to take pictures through reflective plastic!
Totally agree. While a buyer has a part of the blame, it's small compared to someone who knowingly swindles.
PCGS certificate verification Here's how one can verify PCGS certificates... http://www.pcgs.com/cert/ But as Mark and CBD stated, it's easy to fake the proper numbers for the certificate - much easier than forging a convincing counterfeit coin.
Thank you 90fine, this is what i was loking for. The numbers correspond to the coins in the slab. Eduard
Please don't rely just upon the ID number verification, for as has been stated, counterfeit coins have appeared in counterfeit slabs with ID numbers that match genuine coins/grading labels. I see nothing in the images provided to make me question the authenticity of the coins or the holders. And for what it's worth, the grading looks OK to me.
Anyone else find it ironic that Eduard has the real version (off center 1795) of the NGC coin that was counterfeited (a 1796 based on the off-center 1795)?...Mike p.s. nice coins Eduard!
good comments here and advice on counterfeits. it is getting harder and harder to trust sellers. i usually look for dealers with connections to organizations that have a good reputation such as the ana,pcgs,ngc,and png. i look over their ads carefully and look for the listings. steve
