Is this criminal?

It is much more unethical for a professional to knowingly rip off a member of the public than for someone whose business is coins who is to lazy to look up varieties. My whole point is once you present yourself as a professional by being a dealer or having a shop there is a higher standard. eBay dealers don't necessarily fall in that category and I have been on record before that listings errors for a huge loss shouldn't be expected to be followed but at that same time if you're online you have the ability to look things up so you should know better when it's not a typo.

But for your initial question yes it is unethical for a professional in person to knowingly rip someone off with a variety or coin in general. That doesn't mean they cant make a profit and if they genuinely didn't know the variety that is okay too.

Where i was focusing was the ones who knowingly rip people off or talk coins down/trash them to get a better price. As I have said countless times there is a difference between making a profit which is expected and knowingly taking advantage of someone

 

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May I suggest, with all that cherry picking, why not bake a cherry pie ???

 

I've had a rare date 3 cent silver on consignment for well over a year. It was priced significantly over PCGS retail, as requested by the consignee, due to it's rarity. Over the course of a year, I got several messages from different potential buyers claiming that I was "way over priced," and "it'll never sell for that." Last week it sold for full price. The buyer left positive feedback. He's happy, my consignee is happy, and I'm happy because I made 4%. Was I unethical in listing it for over retail price guide? Was my consignee unethical?

Coins are subjective. This one was well struck, accurately graded, undervalued IMO, and exceedingly hard to find. There were no other comparable ones available on the market, so the price tag was big. I don't feel anyone was unethical in this scenario, even though a coin sold for well over retail pricing.

 

I wrote this in another post but I think it also applies here; in any transaction, ''when someone with money meets someone with knowledge, at the conclusion, the person with the knowledge ends up with the money and the person with the money ends with the knowledge''.

 

You make some good points. I think the quote (not mine) was also intended to teach the naive a lesson that often times has to come from an unpleasant experience.

 

No a professional doesn't have the right to pay whatever they want. Paying 50 dollars for a coin they know is worth 1k is ripping someone off, it doesn't matter if they're to dumb to realize they're being ripped off offers like that should have never happened yet they do. If you can't grasp that simple fact of some level of expected professional ethics well......

 

If a doctor makes a deal with a drug maker that provides him with a financial benefit for prescribing their product, that is illegal.

And who is holding a gun to their heads and making them buy those shoes for $250? I know I haven't been forced to.

 

A "dealer" tag does not make him a professional, nor does it make him respected. legality and conscience are getting confused. Yes it is unethical, but not criminal. I can charge 5'000$ for a 10*10 deck. My business model may need that much profit to cut through the red tape. Unless there is some sort of regulation, I can buy and sell for what ever I want. I don't need you to tell me I am making to much profit, or being unethical, because who are you to try and influence my views.

The above scenario is just hypothetical, I believe in honesty and ethical practices. Not everybody does, I like repeat customers, in fact I don't advertise they keep me busy year round.
And, if that 1k piece was stolen, who is out the money? The dealer is. Only a fool would go to a gun fight with a knife.

 

Thank you. I agree wholeheartedly, and if you aren't interested enough to put work into checking out an item, then a person that does do the work should not be slighted or maligned.
I through some coins in a world coin "junk" box at 4/$1. A gentleman pulled out a Montenegro coin that I had missed. I offered him $35 for it, but he wanted it for his collection. I congratulated him on his find and diligence in searching and study.

 

eBay sellers most certainly fall into the same category and simply because no one has forced them to enter into the retail market. Like you said, anyone able to sell items on the internet also has the ability to do their homework first, and this is the final nail into the coffin of giving such people a pass.

That said, there's certainly nothing wrong with giving such people a heads up if one so chooses, but there's nothing morally wrong about picking them. When one decides to enter into the retail market, usually for the opportunity to pocket more money, they rightly must also shoulder the pitfalls of doing so.

 

Yet it's not illegal for pharmaceutical companies to produce drugs in a way that allows them to charge multiples of a similar drug even though it offers absolutely no real world benefits other than giving the prescriber a warm fuzzy. There's always a workaround.

 

There is a perceived value and exclusivity that has an added value. Like the difference in an AUDI and a Volkswagen, or a Ford and a Mercury. Same stuff, difference badges.

 

To clarify I was referring there to obvious listing errors. Like when you see a 400 dollar item listed for 40 or 2K for 200 from a decimal point being wrong. Or when the pictures and listing don't match where clearly an error was made somewhere. The other thing that came into my head was when a big boy seller listed a bunch of graded 70 ASEs I believe it was for something like 99 cents as a BIN listing. Clearly it was supposed to be an auction but the software messed up or a mistake was made listing it.

Those types of incidents I don't hold people too. But you are right yes if it's a listing getting cherry picked it's fair game since they did have the ability to look it up on the internet before deciding a price. I just differentiate between picking and trying to force someone to honor an obvious error

 

Being a dealer in business absolutely does make them a professional, that is literally the definition of a professional someone who does something for a living. It doesn't make them good or smart or honest but it without question makes them a professional.

Actually it is criminal in a lot of places especially when dealing with the elderly when you get to the level that I have been referring to the entire time. There is more leniency given on the selling side for businesses, but the buy side can absolutely become criminal very quickly when lying to people and not even being within spitting distance of something that is even remotely reasonable.

By the way the sell side can get criminal as well using the same tactics and plenty of cases have happened for grossly misrepresenting things especially if you do it to seniors. https://www.cnbc.com/2014/02/27/how...ollar-coin-fraudster-to-hiring-a-hit-man.html

Literally beating a dead horse here that I was never talking about making a profit, but if people want to continue to think you can say and do anything as long as the other party agrees that's on them.

 

Who can say how much, or how little anything is worth ? People certainly need to make a living, whoever they are. But whatever is charged for an item is relative. To think of it purely in money terms is being materialistic. A friend recently gave me a coin of George III that he had dug up in the ground. I appreciated his kindness and generosity, and will certainly give something in return. It seems rare, doesn't it , when someone offers something, and doesn't expect financial gain ?

 

True it isn't illegal, it's called having a patent. To protect themselves a pharmaceutical company will take out a patent on a new drug immediately but it will then take many years and often hundreds of millions of dollars in expenses to get it through all the trials and studies required to get FDA approval. When it does finally get approved (and after all that time and expense many DON'T get approved) there may only be a few years left on their patent in order to recoup their expenses before the patent expires and any other company can start making it and undercut their prices.

If your doctor is prescribing an expensive brand name drug for you that doesn't have a generic version, ASK them why they are prescribing that drug. In some cases it is the only drug available. In others it is because it is head and shoulders better than the next best drug. But in some cases it may just be because the drug rep has been touting it to them recently. If their reason isn't the first or second one I mentioned ASK then if their is another alternative, or what would they prescribe if that wasn't available. Many new drugs marketed today are only slightly better, if that, than the previous drug that would have been prescribed. Be proactive and you can often drugs that are just a good at much lower cost.

 

Does the availability of specialized knowledge make a difference to this analysis? In coins, the knowledge is out there in the public domain. The same is not true of some other professions, which jealously restrict access to their specialized knowledge. In fact, it's kind of the way the entire American Bar Association system works.

It was fairly recently that one could become a lawyer without paying for three years of law school, even by self-study. No more. Abraham Lincoln was a self-taught lawyer.

 

I understand this yet was referring to one specific drug that has the ability to help with a major problem facing this country today, but is needlessly restricted. Think what you will, but combining two long established drugs and making baseless claims in order to convince doctors it's the only real option is pitiful. It's also made the pharmaceutical company boatloads of cash while offering absolutely no benefit to the patient.