Who sets the market prices for coins

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by JayF, May 28, 2018.

  1. JayF

    JayF Active Member

    Do TPGs go by auction houses/eBay/coin shows sold prices for their price guide or is it the other way around?

    I'm curious because PCGS set the price for a 2016-D LSC at 2500.00 for an MS68RD but an MS67RD is set at 60.00. Is it population based? They only show 4.

    I don't know if any of those will actually sell at that price or close to it considering it's a 1 year old coin. I'm wondering if it's just a ploy to entice people to submit their moderns for grading...in the off chance they hold a 68RD and a (potential) big payout. Especially, that they control how many gets that grade.
     
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  3. spirityoda

    spirityoda Coin Junky

    supply and demand. grade and mintage. past auctions.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2018
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  4. Rick Stachowski

    Rick Stachowski Motor City Car Capital

    This is how the price guides are set .
     
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  5. bsowa1029

    bsowa1029 Franklin Half Addict

    The market sets the market price.
    Just like a manufacturer sets the MSRP...
     
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  6. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Jay the question and topic you're asking about comes up a LOT ! I think you'd have a hard time even counting the number of threads and posts that have discussed it. And if you tried to read them you'd see all kinds of different answers offered by many different people. But the real answer to your question is kinda complicated.

    First of all you have to realize that ALL price guides are worthless, meaningless. Not a single one of them is accurate or even close to accurate. As a general rule the values listed in price guides are way too high. And I say as a general rule because it depends on a couple things, first what you're calling a price guide, and second which specific coin you're talking about. For example some might consider the Krause catalogs a price guide, and some of the prices/values listed in there are too low, others are too high. That's just an example of an exception to the general rule I mentioned above.

    And when you asked - is it a ploy ? Well yes in a way. In other words prices guides have an agenda, meaning there's a reason that they list the prices that they use. They keep them high as an incentive to get the public to use them and to perpetuate their businesses. They tell people what they want to hear in other words instead of just telling them the truth.

    Now if you doubt that, simply don't believe it's true, and I don't mean just you I mean anybody, there's a real simple way to test it. All you have to do is look at 6 or 8 of the different price guides and look up 1 specific coin in 1 specific grade. And if you do, what you'll see is that they are all different, sometimes vastly different. When ya see that it becomes obvious that it's impossible for them to all be right, or they wouldn't be different. But since they are all different, it is possible that they are ALL wrong.

    If you do your homework you soon find out that they are all wrong, that they are all way too high. Real world values are almost always quite a bit lower than anything you'll see in any price guide.

    So what are the real world values of coins, who sets them, and where can you find them ? The answers to those questions are fairly simple but for some they can be difficult to obtain. For others it's quite easy.

    The real world values for coins are set by coin dealers. And the easiest way to find them is to get access to the electronic dealer markets. Do that and you'll have your answers in less than 5 minutes - for any coin. The real world value of any coin at any given moment is in between the lowest Ask and the highest Bid on the electronic dealer markets. And these values can and do change from day to day.

    But if you don't have access to those markets then you have to do some work, spend some time and put out some effort. You have to look up the realized auction prices for a given coin in a given grade. And you can only use the major auction houses as your sources. Once you do that you'll establish price range. That range will usually vary, how much depends on how high the number is. If the coin is worth hundreds it may only vary by 200-300, if thousands then 2-3 thousand, and so on so on for maximums. But sometimes it'll be less and the minimums will be much closer. But there's always a range, there is never just 1 single number.

    The reason there's always a range is because no two coins are equal, even if they are the same grade and both graded by the same TPG, no two coins are equal. One is always nicer in one way or another than the other coin. And because one is always nicer the 2 coins will have sold for different prices.

    None of that is probably what you wanted to hear but that is the real answer.
     
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  7. ToughCOINS

    ToughCOINS Dealer Member Moderator

    The MSRP is not a good analogy . . . It holds constant for the duration that a generation of generic product is offered, and is unaffected by the receptiveness of buyers.

    Coin prices are more dynamic than that, as coins are each considered unique unto themselves, and their retail prices easily ebb and flow with changes in recent trading history.
     
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  8. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    No it’s not a ploy, extremely high grade moderns like that often sell for big money. And before anyone else chimes in they’re much harder to locate for business strikes than a lot of people believe
     
  9. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Here - Kool-AidMan.jpg


    - just in case you get thirsty !
     
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  10. JayF

    JayF Active Member

    I don't know what electronic dealer markets are but it sounds vaguely familiar. For some reason this feels like a deja vu, I'll have to look at my history and see if I've asked a similar question. I've learned from CT to use the sold listings on eBay for approximate prices on a coin but there's not a lot of moderns with that grade yet and that's why I was wondering. I was looking at the 2010 to 2017 LSC price guide on PCGS.

    Always appreciate your response(s)
     
  11. Collecting Nut

    Collecting Nut Borderline Hoarder

    To me it's pretty simple. It all boils down to supply and demand. Grade doesn't matter but the supply and demand for that grade does. The market area you live in can affect prices, if you buy or sell within that market. Overall, it's supply and demand, nothing else really matters.
     
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  12. BooksB4Coins

    BooksB4Coins Newbieus Sempiterna

    Or not.
     
  13. charlietig

    charlietig Well-Known Member

    You know I've never had Koolaid before, couldn't tell you what it taste like.
     
  14. Collecting Nut

    Collecting Nut Borderline Hoarder

    lol Then I will not tell you why they call it big juice. :)
     
  15. Santinidollar

    Santinidollar Supporter! Supporter

    For a quick test you can perform on line, choose several coins and grades and compare their prices as listed by PCGS, NGC and Coin World. See how many times you are left scratching your head at the differences.
     
  16. JCro57

    JCro57 Making Errors Great Again

    What are these electronic dealer markets? How do you get access? Can anyone pay for this service, or do you need an IRS number?
     
  17. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    Check Heritage. The ultra high grade moderns usually end up being sold there over ebay. I know they at least have sold a bunch of the top pop Kennedys
     
  18. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    A couple of them are closed unless you're a dealer. One of them you can join but it's expensive, like over a 100 dollars a month expensive if I remember right
     
  19. JCro57

    JCro57 Making Errors Great Again

    Thanks, my friend. Not worth it for me at that price. Good to hear from you.
     
  20. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    The easiest way is to just look at Heritage, they put 8 or 10 of the various price guide values all in in one place for you so you can see them at a glance.
     
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