Is this criminal?

Let's pretend that there is a coin listed inccorrectly and with an estimated value of 100 dollars.

But you realize that that coin is attributed inccorectly, and that its actual value is 10 times higher, and you don't tell other what you know, and then you win that. - Would it be criminal?

Or another example: assume that you are at an auctionhouse and you realize that a portrait is misattributed and you realize it is made by Picasso himself, so you make jackpot with bidding, can the auctionhouse sue you?

 

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Hypothetical to the max.

BTW, incorrectly, not inncorect. Do you notice the red line under words when you post? It means you've typed it incorrectly.

 

English is my third language. Also English is not chosed to show red line under the words since the computher has chosed my mothertongue to show red line. I don't know how to change it since I am not IT-expert, but I will try to do my best.

 

First one, I don't see how it's illegal. Immoral probably.

Second one, here's a section of the Heritage Auction terms, I would assume most auction houses have something similar:

 

Not criminal. Lots of people in the collectables area use their superior knowledge to turn a profit. In some situations it would not be ethical to take advantage of someone though.

 

I'm so sorry. I was unaware that English is not your first language.

 

I believe that is called "cherry picking".

 

Based upon your description, it sounds like you're talking about what would be considered picking. If so, it's not criminal nor immoral in any way, shape, or form as long as in a retail venue.

Just to try to further the point: let's say you had some non-collector bring you an inherited collection. In this scenario it would be unquestionably wrong to lie to the person about value, but anyone either participating in a retail setting or presenting themselves as a dealer/seller is fair game.

 

caveat venditor

 

Fifteen or so years ago there was an 1875 Seated Liberty quarter listed on eBay. Only, it wasn't a quarter. It was a 20 cent coin but the "twenty cents" had worn off. I noticed what it really was so I bid and won the coin for what I felt was a fairly good deal compared to if it had been properly attributed. I said nothing to the seller and apparently no one else who may have noticed did, either. Was this unethical on my part? Perhaps. As far as I was concerned, the seller was obliviously happy and I was happy and in the end, that's what mattered.

 

Is it criminal? No, not as long as you don't purposely misrepresent it to the seller as something that it isn't. That, IMO, would be fraud. Simply buying it as what the seller says that it is even though you know differently is perfectly legal.

Is it ethical? That depends on whether or not you would think it was unethical of the dealer to cherry it from you if you were too lazy to research what it was. It makes no difference, IMO, what side of the counter one stands on--it is either ethical both ways or it is unethical both ways.

 

And that is a compliment, and a well-deserved one.

 

I sold a vintage coat on Ebay a few years ago and started bidding for .99 cents. Free shipping too. There was only one bidder. So, I honored the sale and shipped the coat. Three months later the purchaser wrote me a note saying they had taken the coat to an Arizona museum and authenticated it to be original from a certain American Indian designer of the 1900's. The guy sold the coat to the museum for $35,000. I figured if I was so stupid as to not have identified the value of the coat, then the guy had the right to take advantage of the sale. Additionally, it made for a great story that I HAVE NEVER TOLD MY HUSBAND! In conclusion, I feel my ignorance was someone else's gain. (Sorry to compare a coat to a coin. But, as we used to say in Hawaii: "same smell.")

 

Also wanted to add, anything being auctioned or buy-it-now sold on the internet is fair game without ethical issues. If you have the ability to sell something online then you also have the ability to find out all you need to know about it. No one should ever feel bad for making a good buy due to lack of due diligence on the part of the seller

 

Someone is always going to have better knowledge, and if they happen to be buying, then they might find or cherrypick something. That's part of the fun of coin collecting: the hunt. And we all win and lose, so it seems just overall. How far you go or take advantage of another is up to you, and how vulnerable you are to others is also up to you. But i would hope most of us agree that we should be fair to non-collectors, either when they are buying a gift or selling us something.

 

Hope your husband doesn't post here

 

Not really in all honesty. That doesn’t change the ethics of it at all and this is one of the few times it shouldn’t be the same either way. A dealer ripping off a customer who is not a professional and may or may not know what they’re doing is completely different than a professional missing something.

It’s like saying a mechanic can make things up because a customer was to lazy to learn how to fix a car. This is an instance where yes there is a higher standard for professionals and there should be.

 

This is the correct answer. There was a thread not long ago. Fellow at a coin show picked a $60.00 Morgan from one dealers table. He knew it was a much better coin. He carried it to another dealers table at the same coin show and sold it for $250.00. He was working through a personal guilt issue over the transaction...... Using your knowledge to gain an edge or a profit is perfectly acceptable and is entirely legal.

 

In the Morgan world this is common. With thousands of VAMs few if any dealers take the time to look at every coin. They are willing to make a profit and move on without study. VAMers know their stuff and can spot the more difficult VAMs. Their investment in time and education earns them the premium. Everyone is happy and it isn't a sin to make a profit. I think it is called capitalism.

 

Some people don't even look closely enough at the date. I bought a 1893p in a cardboard 2x2 labeled "1898" in the early 2000s for $17. It was a cleaned au, so i would have overpaid had it actually been a 1898.