Are you a "Hole filling" collector?

Ursula Kampmann wrote an article last year on The Nine Types of Coin Collectors. I suspect Doug is type 7 The Researcher. I suspect many of Doug's comments apply only to this kind of collector.

 

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Thanks for posting that link, very interesting! Many of us probably fall into more than one category.

 

I echo IOM's thoughts and wanted to add a bit more as the not-so-veiled subtext in this post is similar to many which are frankly why I spend far less time posting on this forum these days.

Doug, I suggest you look at other bidder handles than just Clio and I think you'll realize your assumptions are entirely incorrect. I'm regularly outbid by the same people on five figure as on three figure coins. The notion that collectors who CAN buy expensive coins ONLY buy expensive coins is absurd: there are large swaths of numismatics that are extremely interesting and enjoyable to collect at a low price point (i.e. I'm working on a Nabataean set and haven't paid over $200 for a coin yet).

I would be shocked if anyone deliberately avoided buying coins just because they were cursed by being inexpensive: if dekadrachms cost their weight in silver it wouldn't make me want them any less and if Nabataean bronze cost its weight in gold, it wouldn't make me want them more: a coin is a coin and I really wish they cost less so that I could buy more of what I like, which, of course, includes nice examples of otherwise common types.

There are some specialized collections of expensive coins (i.e. the LaBorde collection of aurei which has been sold over the last couple years by NAC). Is it really so unfathomable that he could have numismatic interest and decide to collect just aurei? The late Larry Adams is in the same group: I doubt anyone would say he wasn't a quality numismatist but he chose to only buy gold coins because that was his personal preference.

If someone wants to buy 1,000 $100 coins or one $100,000 coin, it makes no difference. Everyone should be able to collect what they want and shouldn't be improperly judged with these assumptions that "money = numismatic apathy". All of the well-heeled collectors I know spend countless hours studying coins, buying books, pouring over catalogs, etc.

Sheikhs are rare and the exception to the rule and it shouldn't be assumed that collectors with expensive coins are only out for investment/don't care about the numismatic context/are bidding like the Sheikh.

 

I do not want to pile on. However, I REALLY bit my tongue with @dougsmit 's post. It came right after my Etrurian Coin posting above. I am not sure you were alluding to my post or if it were a coincidence.

Yes, they are a bit more expensive, but ANYTHING Etrurian is expensive. I am not a high-end collector. I post from low-cost, to fairly expensive coins for the "average" collector.

I am proud of all of my coins, as I collect historically... not numismatically.

Specifically in regards to my Etrurian coins, I really enjoy exploring the foundations of a society, and their origins. In the case of my Etrurians, they were the historical forerunners of the Romans... Rome's first Kings, many of their religious influences, rites, etc. etc. were directly from or influenced by the Etrurians. This influence, I believe, probably were the origins of what made a backwater city to become a World Empire. Interesting stuff to me. I spent some dollars on those coins, but they represent a fascinating placemarker in history to me. It was a real "high" to me with @Theodosius 's comment about it being a tougher collection to put together.

I agree with @IdesOfMarch01 's and @TIF 's statements. I respect the knowledge and experience you bring to these threads. However, I have seen various caustic remarks regarding anyone spending higher-than-your-normal purchases for coins. I enjoy History, and that is how I collect. I appreciate Ides' and @AncientJoe 's approach to their collecting - I have learned their appreciation for the artestry of the cellators work that they pursue. And, I know many folks have spent high monies against their budget for coins that they love. Sometimes spending a few extra or even MAJOR monies fuels their PASSION for Ancients. Personally, some of the higher valued coins that I have purchased was that real PASSION.

EDIT: LOL, I just read the 9 Types of Collectors... I consider myself #9 Historian, but, no, I am not even remotely within the professions described and, I have over 1,000 Ancients! LOL, I have ALWAYS been one to "Buck the Norm!"

 

So true! I see at least three categories that wouldn't offend if applied to me.

 

When I first started collecting Roman coins 35+ years ago, I thought you were only ALLOWED to get one coin per emperor. If I had a bronze from some guy then I would pass up a denarius or another bronze, etc. Hey, I was 20 and there was no Internet, no coin clubs locally, no shows, no other ancient collectors, and no ancient coin magazines I knew of. I also had no money which made passing up coins easier. Sometimes I had to choose between buying food or an ancient coin while I was in college. Lets just say I was pretty skinny back then. I have to laugh now when people belittle my collecting style or question my passion for ancients.

My only resources at the time were the few books the local library, the occasional ancients article in The Numismatist, and 2 local dealers with a couple ancients. Later I discovered fixed price and mail bid lists from Fred Shore, Empire, and a few others. I was too chicken to "bid" on anything so I went fixed price. Here is a coin I bought from Fred Shore in the early 1980s. I loved this huge, Egyptian! Greek coin.



It dawned on me after a while people could have more than one coin per emperor. Now I must have 50 from Constantine. Discovering CoinTalk has not helped at all.

After graduating with an engineering degree and working 50-60 hours per week for 35 years, I can afford to buy these coins. So I did, and I find never regretted any of them for a second.


John

 

The article Ed pointed us to rings with familiarity and mentions some noteworthy things, but in the end is a monument to stereotyping. That said, I do recognize the quirks of "the Researcher" in Doug, and I want to comment in that vein. The article in question describes the Researcher as a decidedly middle class phenomenon. Exceptional are the people of rank and privilege who are so enthralled with a pursuit that they are willing and able to marshal their resources to building a lasting monument to research and discovery - reference collections. In reading the lament that Doug posted, I see a call for more of a research mentality among those whose personal resources might achieve more for the betterment of knowledge with a different focus or emphasis.

But there is another aspect to his complaint. Intellect is seldom admired as much as beauty and strength. Doug's research efforts are diminished by those who first look to coins for beauty. For example, the Severan issues from Emesa have astoundingly interesting reverse types and themes, if you can get past the horrible appearance of most of them. Most collectors cannot. The few examples that are pleasing to the eye are so costly as to be all but unattainable for the "Researcher" type. The "Researcher" will watch as the beautifully significant are swallowed up by those whose interest is in its significant beauty.

I resonate to this struggle, especially as a "Researcher" type who also wants to get the highest grade I can reasonably afford. I want to see, and not through a haze of imperfections. Wouldn't it be great to link up the able with the eager?

Social class disparity is always the elephant in the room on an open list like this. I appreciate the broad reach of this list, and I hope that everyone in the conversation can set aside social class pride enough to allow some real thinking, challenging as it may be, to take place. It's easy to react. Understanding and insight are worth more, I think. So is appreciation over a naked acceptance or a bare toleration.

What are you hoping to achieve by building your collection as you do?

 

If my reason for collecting was to get the highest specimens and to make myself off as a high-end collector, I would have certainly never played the Ancients game. I'm what you'd call a bargain bottom dweller. Sure, I have a few choice coins and "nice" coins I paid dearly for because I fell in love with them and had some extra cash at the moment, but overall if I were to submit my collection to CNG or the likes, they'd probably reject 90% of my coins for being too much of the type of stuff the working class collects, and not fit for the high end audience they want to cater to.

I don't mind though because I entered into this hobby due to my passion for history, and I'm just glad that I can actually afford a piece of the past without having to make huge sacrifices. There was a time that I assumed all ancient coins would be so expensive that I would never be able to own one, and I was very pleasantly surprised to find out that this preconception was completely wrong.

That being said, I'm just glad to be a part of this hobby, and I've never held a grudge against those that can afford $5000 or $10,000 coins, or even $50,000 coins. If anything, I'm glad to see them around and I'm happy there are high end collectors that bother to take the time to share their beauties with us here, and I think it's great that they want to contribute towards expanding our knowledge and experience of ancient coins at the high-end levels. Yeah, sometimes I may get a little jealous of not being able to own a particularly nice coin one of them has, but I certainly hold them no malice whatsoever and I am happy to see them here as contributing members.

I also admire collectors like dougsmit who chase coins most people would pass on, and take their time to expand our eyes and make us want to take a second or third look at coins we might have unfairly dismissed. People like him are also a valuable addition to our forum.

 

Many of us consider ouselves as bottom feeders, but in truth, we all strive (I think) to obtain the best possible examples within our budgets.

Agreed. I'm always fascinated with some of the peculiarities @dougsmit presents. I get an education almost daily.

 

I'm number 10—the religious fanatic who considers ancient coins to be potential Holy Relics that were touched by the Saints. Just kidding—sort of

 

Good to know. I took you for #9, "Historian".