First Abdication Ancient

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Mat, Apr 29, 2018.

  1. Mat

    Mat Ancient Coincoholic

    I've always liked abdication issues and finally got one of Maximianus. Diocletian would be later down the road.

    R for the RT is to the lower far right, especially in hand.

    A rare mint type I believe.

    [​IMG]
    Maximianus (286-305 A.D.)
    Æ Follis
    O: D N MAXIMIANO FELICISS SEN AVG, laureate bust of Maximianus right in imperial mantle, olive branch in right hand, mappa in left.
    R: PROVIDENTIA DEORVM QVIES AVGG, Providentia standing right, extending right hand to Quies standing left, branch in right hand, leaning on scepter with left; S-F across fields, RT in exergue.
    Rome Mint, 3rd officina, 305 AD
    28mm
    10.91g
    RIC 119b(R2)
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2018
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  3. Jwt708

    Jwt708 Well-Known Member

    Nice coin and I love the photo!
     
  4. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    Diocletian from Alexandria follis
    ru3430bb2262.jpg

    and a 1/2 fraction
    ru3420bb0772.jpg
     
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  5. ancient coin hunter

    ancient coin hunter 3rd Century Usurper

    Great coin @Mat ! I don't have any of these abdication types yet but I'll look out for some.
     
  6. Mat

    Mat Ancient Coincoholic

  7. Clavdivs

    Clavdivs Well-Known Member

    Hi Mat - just wondering if you (or someone else) could expand on the abdication and the relevance of the "r" or "rt"... I have a couple of Maximianus coins and would like to understand what I am looking for. I have only been collecting for about 6 months so when I see something I am unsure of I like to ask.. thank you.
     
  8. nicholasz219

    nicholasz219 Well-Known Member

    I don’t have any of the abdication coins, very nice @Mat and @dougsmit. I look forward to adding some in the future.
     
  9. jamesicus

    jamesicus Well-Known Member

    Diocletian plans his Abdication - and includes a reluctant Maximian Herculius:

    It seems Diocletian had always envisioned that there would come a time when he (along with his co-Augustus) would have to relinquish the reins of supreme power and retire (for whatever reason). He chose the occasion of his Vicennalia -- the twentieth anniversary of his assumption of power as Augustus and coincidentally the tenth anniversary (Decinnelia) of his institution of the Tetrarchy -- to Abdicate and retire and persuaded (compelled?) Maximian Herculius to do the same in concert with him. And so, in 303 the two Augusti announced their intention to simultaneously abdicate and retire (Maximian Herculius somewhat reluctantly) in 305, their titles and authority to be assumed by the Caesars, who in turn would appoint new Caesars thus perpetuating the system. This was, of course, the only instance of an Abdication during the Tetrarchy -- it didn't survive as an institution long enough to witness another one. Although Diocletian had provided a model for perpetuation of the system attending an Abdication, he didn't provide one to follow in the event of the sudden death of one, or both, of the reigning Augusti, and that had dire consequences for the Tetrarchy when Constantius (Augustus of the West) died suddenly in 306.


    RIC VI, Londinium, No. 76b, Maximian Herculius (Abdication commemorative):
    CT (Cloke & Toone), No. 4.01.003, c. May 305 - Spring 307, Rarity: R


    [​IMG][​IMG]

    DN MAXIMIANO BEATISSIMO SEN AVG
    PROVIDENTIA DEORVM QVIES AVGG


    Obverse: Laureate bust of Maximian Herculius in Imperial mantle holding mappa in right hand and olive branch in left hand.
    Reverse: Personification of Providentia, standing left, and extending hand to personification of Quies, standing right, holding olive branch and leaning on sceptre.
    9.8 gm.

    RIC VI, Londinium, No. 77a, Diocletian (Abdication commemorative):
    CT (Cloke & Toone), No. 4.01.002, c. May 305 - Spring 307, Rarity: C


    [​IMG][​IMG]

    DN DIOCLETIANO FELICISSIMO SEN AVG
    PROVIDENTIA DEORVM QVIES AVGG


    Obverse: Laureate bust of Diocletian in Imperial mantle holding mappa in right hand and olive branch in left hand.
    Reverse: Personification of Providentia, standing left, and extending hand to personification of Quies, standing right, holding olive branch and leaning on scepter.
    9.6 gm.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2018
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  10. Caesar_Augustus

    Caesar_Augustus Well-Known Member

    Here's my Maximian abdication from Heraclea :) It's due for a re-picture very shortly. :D

    [​IMG]

    Still on the lookout for a nice Diocletian one though. I'm specifically on the look out for one from Serdica. :)
     
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  11. chrsmat71

    chrsmat71 I LIKE TURTLES!

    Nice @Mat ! One of these is on my list for sure!
     
  12. zumbly

    zumbly Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana

    Here's one from Cyzicus that could pass off as a Trier issue from the exergual mark (and apparently did pass off as being from Trier for a long while).

    Diocletian - Providentia Quies PTR 451.jpg
    DIOCLETIAN
    AE Follis. Abdication Issue. 9.17g, 28.3mm. Cyzicus mint, AD 305-307. RIC VI 677a (Trier). O: D N DIOCLETIANO FELISSIMO SEN AVG, laureate bust right in imperial mantle, holding olive branch and mappa. R: PROVIDENTIA DEORVM QVIES AVGG, Providentia standing right, extending right hand to Quies standing left, holding branch and leaning on sceptre; S F in fields, K S between figures, PTR in exergue.
    CNG notes: "This is perhaps one of the most unusual issues in the entire follis series. It is nearly always attributed to Trier (Treveri), but a comparison of portrait styles and an examination of follis hoards reveals that it was not struck in Trier but in Cyzicus. Two officinas struck this issue, D and z, and the KD in the field between the two figures is actually the mintmark, not the PTR. A look at the coins of Cyzicus (RIC 22-23) shows that the same two officina struck this issue without the PTR also. The appearance of Greek letters on an issue from Trier would be highly unusual. The Senior Augustus issues of Diocletian and Maximianus were struck at every mint then in operation. Apparently, the first coins of these types were prepared at (or for) Trier, and examples were sent to the various other mints to copy. At Cyzicus, the die engravers copied everything, including the Trier mintmark - and put their own mintmark in the field. Someone soon realized the mistake and new dies were prepared with the Cyzicus mintmark only - and in its proper location."
     
  13. nicholasz219

    nicholasz219 Well-Known Member

    This is very useful information @zumbly. I know too little about these and this helps.
     
  14. maridvnvm

    maridvnvm Well-Known Member

    I had a Diocletian Rome issue example but different officina.

    Note that yours is PROVIDENT DEOR QVIES AVGG not DEORVM. I also think that yours is BEATISS and not FELICISS.

    Obv:– DN DIOCLETIANO BEATISS SEN AVG, Laureate bust right, wearing imperial mantle, holding olive branch in right hand and mappa in left
    Rev:– PROVIDENT DEOR QVIES AVGG, Providentia standing right, extending right hand to Quies, standing left holding branch in right hand and leaning on scepter in left hand
    Minted in Rome (S in left field, F in right field, RP in exe) c. A.D. 305
    References:– RIC VI Rome 116a (R)

    RI%20141v%20img.jpg
     
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  15. maridvnvm

    maridvnvm Well-Known Member

    I did have a half decent example of the Cyzicus/Trier coin too.... but alas I had to part with this sub-collection some years back.

    RI_141br_img.jpg
     
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  16. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    What a wonderful historic type! (scribbles on the list)
     
  17. Mat

    Mat Ancient Coincoholic

    Thanks for the help, Martin.
     
  18. Theodosius

    Theodosius Fine Style Seeker

    I have this Diocletian Follis from Alexandria:

    Diocletian Follis 1a.jpg

    I got this one from Warren.

    John
     
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  19. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    At this time, Rome mint used the city letter R followed by the first letter of the ordinal for the workshop:
    Prima = first
    Secunda = second
    Tertia = third so RT is Rome mint, third workshop or officina.

    It was mentioned that Maximianus was not a volunteer when Diocletian said to retire. Later, he came back and tried to be an active first tier Augustus again. Sometimes we see those coins termed 'second reign'.
    DN MAXIMIANO PFS AVG summer of 307 AD London mint PLN GENIO POP ROM
    ru3685fd2522.jpg
    The second reign did not go so well since there were too many people claiming power so he abdicated again in 308. In 310, Maximianus came back for a third reign but that went even worse. Wikipedia puts it nicely:
    Maximian was captured, reproved for his crimes, and stripped of his title for the third and last time. Constantine granted Maximian some clemency but strongly encouraged his suicide. In July 310, Maximian hanged himself.

    In this period of history, 'some clemency' would include being allowed to kill oneself rather than being dispatched with no clemency. Romans were good at 'no clemency'. I do not know how to tell a coin of this last period in 310. Anyone?
     
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  20. randygeki

    randygeki Coin Collector

    Neat addition Mat and great coins all.
     
  21. Clavdivs

    Clavdivs Well-Known Member

    Thank you Doug
     
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