Can anyone explain me the logic here?

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Herberto, Apr 24, 2018.

  1. Herberto

    Herberto Well-Known Member

    This is a follis of Basil I the Macedonian. I won that coin for about 1-2 years ago with 55 Euro with fee:

    867-886 Basil I with Leo VI and Constantine VII S1712.jpg

    Sometimes I pay 10-20% more because there could be a coin I really wanted, and other times I pay 10-20% less than I expected because there were few bidders. That coin above you can easily get for about 40-70 Euro.

    But I don't understand this price:
    https://www.biddr.ch/auctions/numismatiknaumann/browse?a=257&c=4069&l=244971

    With fee it will be 322 Euro(!) - Why did that happen? Yes my coin is a Sear 1712 with Basil holding the akakia, while that other is a Sear 1713 without the akakia. But that rare factor surely doesn't explain the price of 322 Euro.

    I understand if someone paid a little overprice or so. - But why 322 Euro?

    What am I missing here?
     
    Marsyas Mike and Bing like this.
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  3. V. Kurt Bellman

    V. Kurt Bellman Yes, I'm blunt! Get over your "feeeeelings".

    Maybe somebody fell in love with the "color".
     
  4. Quant.Geek

    Quant.Geek Well-Known Member

    There are really only two reasons why this is happening:

    1) People of bidding due to an uptake in demand for Byzantine coins. Seems there is a greater interest in the past few years.

    2) People protecting their bids with a ridiculous bid and it just shot up. biddr.ch and NM has gotten ridiculous lately where some bidders are getting too emotional...

    Here is mine that originally sold for $240 plus buyers fee, but I bought it for much less:

    [​IMG]

    BTW, I missed out on that whole auction as I came in too late for the Byzantine section :rolleyes:. Probably a good thing as I have blew my budget already....
     
  5. Herberto

    Herberto Well-Known Member

    "People protecting their bids with a ridiculous bid and it just shot up."

    What do you mean? - You mean someone giving their coins to auction, and then bidding on their own coins to increase the values? -
     
  6. Quant.Geek

    Quant.Geek Well-Known Member

    Meaning that I might send in a bid of $300 on a $50 coin knowing that I will win the auction on most reasonable bids. Of course, until, someone else puts in a protective bid like that or close to it. Seen this happen all the time on Ebay and CNG.

    However, if it went up slowly during the auction, then it was a bidding war and two people wanted it BAADDDLY (Clio does this and sometimes coins end up costing twice as much :mad:)....
     
    Nicholas Molinari likes this.
  7. V. Kurt Bellman

    V. Kurt Bellman Yes, I'm blunt! Get over your "feeeeelings".

    Some people have "auction discipline" and some people don't. Some people can't help turning an auction into a .... measuring contest. [clip - as in measuring the width of one's money clip]
     
    TypeCoin971793 likes this.
  8. Herberto

    Herberto Well-Known Member

    I see. That sounds very plausible.
     
  9. Quant.Geek

    Quant.Geek Well-Known Member

    BTW, with the release of the DOC books, its going to get worse. Byzantine coins will end up costing more with more educated sellers. Definitely a double-edged sword...
     
  10. Caesar_Augustus

    Caesar_Augustus Well-Known Member

    But with the sudden increase in interest, I see that the interest will fade away quickly. I think people should be cautious with their bids and not overspend, as it may be very difficult to get perhaps a fraction of the original cost back within several years, if needed. I love Byzantine coins, but I do want to avoid the bidding wars I have been seeing. Coins that should be sold for $70 or $100 are selling for several times more than that.

    I also believe the interest is due to more educated collectors on the Byzantine period due to the availability of educational material, such as podcasts, books and catalogues (as mentioned previously by @Quant.Geek).

    EDIT: I think what I sort of mean to say is that it has become a fad right now.
     
  11. Black Friar

    Black Friar Well-Known Member

    Auctions are interesting places no matter what you are bidding on. Someone wants it, and someone else wants it more. Two big finger people bidding on the same item is a sellers dream.

    When I started collecting Byzantine coinage in the very early 80's the junk box was my friend. So many people didn't understand Byz Coins and didn' want to take the time to figure them out, so into the junk box they went for two to three bucks, or a lot less. A lot of bang for the buck.

    There is so much more info on this area of collecting it makes my head swim with delight. Not just more books, but online research available. CNG's cataloges (paper version) were a necessity to collect to form a library. Same with Harlan Berk, and Frank Kovaks to name a few. I still have some in my library.

    It took me 2 or 3 years to find another person that actually collected Byzantine coinage. After thirty years or so of looking I know what I've seen before; I certainly know something I've never seen before and I jump on it.

    What's really fun to watch is when one doesn't quibble about the price, you reach into your pocked and "pay the money" and walk away. The seller inevitably thinks "Did I Screw UP?" Never put something out for sale if you don't know what it is, even if it takes ten years.

    The photo below was sold as a low grade Anastasius I and was priced accordingly. It's a barbarous piece, and much scarcer as such. I just love these wonderfully ugly coins.

    BARBAR~1.JPG
     
  12. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    I have seen this in action. As a known cheapskate and person who collects Septimius Severus, I had a seller at a show refuse to sell me a coin saying he knew that he must have missed something or I would not want it. Just because something is rare or interesting to a specialist does not mean it will or should sell for more. Dealers buy coins from people, mark up the price and resell to other people. If a dealer pays grandma widow $10 for a late Roman bronze and puts it in his case marked Claudius $20, should he feel misused when someone buys it for his asking price? Does it make any difference if it was not Claudius but Marius? He still doubled his money. If grandma widow comes into a shop and a dealer tells her that her coin is a $10 Claudius when it is Marius, that is abuse. Is it my job to point out ID errors to dealers whether or not it affects the value? It is a rare coin show that I do not point out at least one error to a dealer. It is a rare show that I am not asked 'Is this denarius Alexandria?'. I answer those questions honestly but dealers who think I will then buy the coin for more than it is worth based on my ID rarely succeed. There is one dealer in particular that I taught how to ID Septimius mints and now does not need to ask since now he is skilled. That is a win-win situation since now he knows what to buy that I will like.

    I like that barbarous Anastasius and would buy it for a low grade price. I was not aware that such a coin is rare and desirable to specialists so I would have no reason to pay more. Should a specialist tell the seller that the coin is worth more? To me, it is an ugly, low grade Anastasius. Value is in the eye of the buyer. Sellers who think they set the prices need to find buyers who agree with them. Sooner or later they probably will.
     
    Marsyas Mike and TIF like this.
  13. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    See, this is one reason I prefer to keep a low profile. That way, nobody realizes that if I think it's a price worth paying, they must be asking too little. ;)
     
    Marsyas Mike likes this.
  14. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random guy on the internet

    I always act a little hesitant like I need to think about it. But I am starting to get a reputation in my coin club... ;)

    I’ve had that happen yo me once. I put a cleaned and damaged 1864 L cent on eBay, expecting around $40. It sold for over $100. I looked for some DDO or RPM that could make it worth that much, and I still didn’t see anything. But oh well. I made $90.
     
    Marsyas Mike likes this.
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