First PCGS submission - severely damaged & dirty coins!

I agree, that baseball guy automatically assumed the OP was just unhappy with the grade, found every reason why it can never happen at the TPG. Really stupid comment. It's like TPGs are not capable of making mistakes.

 

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If you read the original post, the OP was asking if anyone had the same handling issue and consequently customer service issue with PCGS. That baseball dude started accusing them of being unhappy with the grade as the reason, the OP merely explained why they didn't believe it "turned" during the shipping. Then people started focusing on that including you and assumed that the OP wasn't happy with the comments. Read the thread again.

 

The OP stated his reason for coming here multiple times, and it wasn't for empathy or pitchforks.

 

Like I said in my initial post, I really have no opinion on this matter. I was just trying to make the point that your situation is a perfect reason why photos should always be taken before submission. My post was intended to be educational for others who are considering submitting.

Based on what you posted, I was under the impression that the photo you posted in post #21 was your proof of pre-submission condition, which is not clear enough to prove anything.

 

I bought a couple modern coins one time because I liked the design. They came to me pristine in the mint air tite holders. About 2 months later I pulled them out to sell because I realized I have no interest in moderns, still in the airtites they all looked like absolute hell. Way worse than yours. I ended up just selling them for spot basically to get rid of them because they looked so terrible. Learned my lesson, never buy a modern

Could something have happened while the coin was at PCGS? Of course. Is it likely? Not really, they handle hundreds of thousands of modern proofs they know what they're doing to not harm the coin in any way whatsoever.

Also before photos do no good for a number of reasons.

 

I think people underestimate what can happen during shipping, there's a lot of vibration going on in the trucks, on the planes, etc. I've never submitted anything for grading but if I do, I won't be using vinyl flips, I want something that will keep the coin from vibrating around in it's holder.

BTW, I'm not saying this is for sure what happened to the OP's coins, just that I've worked in mail rooms before including at a Coin related business and shipping is rough of delicate items.

 

But don’t the TPGs REQUIRE the use of 2.5” x 2.5” flips?

Steve

 

You can send them in the government packages if you want. They just don’t allow stapled 2x2s as they don’t want people claiming staple scratches

 

I've submitted in airtites.

 

I think you might also need to re-read it. My comments were neither blaming the OP or the TPG. There was another recent thread with a very similar experience. So how did it happen? Based on one of his before photos, it was clear to me that something did happen to his coin. Without knowing all the details, it's impossible to decide where it happened.

 

I don't see how presenting the same points which PCGS will present is attacking OP. If anything it's helping him get his thoughts in order while he waits for PCGS' response (which I can only assume by the lack of updates that they have responded and we'll never see OP again.. standard).
I doubt PCGS's delay in response has anything to do with dodging the situation. However, they are a business and their business does not just stop because they have a complaint. Then it takes time to review the situation. From what I've heard they have every step of the grading process on security camera. It takes time to review footage.
I'm sure they don't want to address a situation with incomplete information. They probably get 5 calls a day from people who are unhappy with the grades their coins received. They have a procedure to sort out the legitimate claims from the bullhonkey.

 

I am probably wrong, but it looks as though the scratches are on the surface of the encasement...HOPE SO

 

I just increased the magnification to over 500% on this photo and the casement is full of white specks and scratches. Examine the lower right hand corner of the casement and there is a R.C. etched into the plastic from possibly the inside....Looks like a lousy job of encasement with some left over junk they had on hand...Bud NOT LIKE.

 

In re to the "RC" - are you sure it's not the "PCGS" embossing?

 

Can't say it is not Beef, but it sure looks like a crude etching of "R.C.", on or in the plastic on the lower right hand corner of the casement.
I also thought at first that it could have been PCGS but when magnified to 500% it sure looked and looks like R.C. and a crude effort at best. I examined the R to be sure that I was not mistaking a P for a R and it sure looks like a R.
Increase the magnification on the lower right corner and see what you think, if you have not already.

 

Beefer...I just went back and looked at the R.C. and I think you are right...It looks like it is PCGS and the C is in part of the P making the P look like a R...That is why you guys are experts and I am only Bud's friend....sorry for questioning you.

 

Wow, this was really educational! If I ever send any coins to be graded I'll know how to package them and what to expect. And I guess I'll have to make sure I take pictures before sending them out. See? Stuff like this is why I like hanging out here!

 

The lack of updates has been due to a lack of communication from PCGS, though I did actually "update" in a way recently by noting a lack of communication from PCGS. That did change the day before yesterday and I am engaged directly with PCGS customer service finally.

No offense, but there was no need to "get my thoughts in order". My thoughts were clearly in order. Both here, and in much more detail with PCGS. In an effort to allow for the errors that come with any business, I've withheld names and details of my communication with PCGS as my intention was never to drag them through the mud. It was because of their professional reputation that I was very surprised by both the situation and especially the response from their CS. I posted here to find out if this was business as usual for them.

PCGS has acknowledged that they dropped the ball and they're finally kicking their investigation apparatus into gear. They assured me what I guessed was true, and the above poster also mentioned; that every point of contact is filmed and if anything untoward occurred they're on it as they have a reputation to uphold. Apparently, pcgs recently updated their phone system and voicemails have been getting gobbled up. That matters because I was directed to a VP the week before last who never returned my call and that helped set me off and left me feeling like I was dealing with a poorly run business, prompting my post here curious if that was how they worked.

As a sidenote; I learned PCGS is perfectly fine with coins being shipped in the original airtights contrary to the public facing shipping instructions. I'd certainly prefer that for most modern coins with large mirror fields.

There have been an interesting/surprising number of assumptions made about me, my motivations, and my character, etc etc. Fortunately, I am not one to care what people think of me but I must say, this is not a particularly welcoming community. That's a broad and maybe unfair assertion but even those that claim to be posting neutral comments are doing nothing of the sorts. There were a few of you that understood what I was, clearly i might add, saying/looking for. Thank you kindly, I noticed and it was sincerely appreciated.

To those that were not just unwelcoming but borderline hostile: Why? It was obvious I was distressed due to a lack of communication from PCGS and I was reaching out for advice. I could have complained about only 1 70 grade out of 12 coins submitted, but the grade was NEVER the issue. The PF65 simply tipped me off that something was wrong. And I was right. It'll be a week or so before PCGS gets back to me with what they discovered on their end. There is every chance I won't share every detail. I've owned a few different businesses and the interwebs, while great in many ways, can also amplify unusual negative events unfairly.

Sadly, the slabs are full of "stuff" Even worse, the coin itself was scratched as is the slab (one horribly so). There are significant scratches on several of the coins. I think the lettering is just the PCGS logo.

 

@Clezra5k, I can understand and appreciate your frustration with how you feel you were treated by the CT community, and trust me, it's not because we don't want new members who will be a benefit in the long run.

You have to look at it from the point of some of the long-timers here. A new member jumps on to the forum to tout how a well known, well respected, often used, and one of the standards of the current numismatic atmosphere 'screwed him/her over'. You are not the first to do this, and you certainly won't be the last, and that's okay. In almost all instances, the OP comes in, tells how horrible XYZ Company is, how they were screwed over, and after a few posts, we never hear from them again. Never. It kind of lessens the impact of future similar posts, and also hurts the credibility of those that have legitimate issues (like yourself).

Yes, you may have to be on the defensive, but there does come a point where the community starts to listen, accept, and (possibly) agree with the poster. It is nothing against you personally.

You're original question of

could have been answered without posting the thread, and simply by searching either here or even a broad google search. That is where the communication falls apart, because we have all heard of instances of TPG's making errors in grading, accidentally damaging coins, etc. But we have also heard of, and seen more frequently, false accusations against the TPG's. So when a new/unknown member starts making these claims, we as a community react based on historical instances.

Is that the right way? Who knows. It's just how this community has been programmed to react to certain things, good or bad.

CoinTalk is a great asset to the hobby, and I/we really hope you'll understand how things go around here at times. We also are really looking forward to hear how this turns out.

Just don't ask us if the quarter you found in the parking lot is a mint error!!!!

Hugs all around!

 

This is a great level headed response that pretty much sums it all up perfectly.

I would just add that when an issue has occurred one of the things we wonder is how could that have happened and often times the answer is many many ways with some more likely than others.