Lowest grade Proof you’ve ever seen?

A few weeks ago I went to the PNNA show in Tukwila (just south of Seattle). I got the opportunity to photograph one of the most interesting numismatic items I have ever seen: an 1878 (proof-only date) Shield Nickel that entered circulation and was worn down to AG detail.



(This coin, as of the time of the show, was owned by West Coast Coins of Toledo, Oregon. Give their website and Ebay store a look sometime, they have great coins.)

I’ve also heard of Gobrecht dollars as low as Proof-6. What is the most worn proof coin you’ve seen?

 

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The 1878 PR03 pictured above is mislabeled. It's an 1873. I see lots of people trying to pass very worn 1873s off as 1878, but have never seen it in a TPG holder.

The reason I know it's an 1873 is that the date logotype does not match that of an 1878. This webpage has more info:

http://www.shieldnickels.net/73or78/73or78.html

 

I didn’t have the time to look at this piece back when I was at the show, and I ended up not catching this. Nice catch.

It does appear to match the 1873 logotype.

 

I believe I’ve seen at least one PR05, a Morgan dollar.

 

Gobrecht dollar in PR04.

 

“Send to CAC”

LOL!!!

 

Gobrecht dollars in 4 6 8 10 etc. I’ve seen at least half a dozen low grade ones. An 1880 trade dollar in vf 20 too

 

If it is an 1873 (and I don't doubt howards' analysis) is it still a proof?
Since it was labeled an 1878 proof, perhaps that was an easier call.
And, what are the markers that it is a proof?

 

I haven't seen it but PCGS has a 02 trade dollar proof in their population

 

PCGS marked it a proof because they thought it was an 1878 and 1878 is a proof-only year. IMO, they made no effort to determine if the coin was actually a proof.

This coin is so worn that it is impossible to tell if it was originally a proof, but I doubt it very much. If it were somewhat less worn and I could tell if the date was an Open 3 or a Closed 3, then an Open 3 would make it impossible to be a proof (none were struck).

Die markers for proof shield nickels include squared off rims (not beveled), proof surfaces (mirrored, no luster), sharpness of strike. For a given year, there may be additional markers.

 

Right, so as an 1873, it's prob just a circulated business strike? It doesn't look like a proof. I realize in this condition it is hard to tell. But even back then people were not spending proof coins at face value. Unless some kid got his hands on daddy's nickel.
Is it the closed 3? The open 3 seems to be common, and the closed 3 is at least a rarer variety.

 

Can't tell if this coin is Open or Closed 3. The 3 is just a blob.

It is a fallacy (perpetuated by reference books) that Closed 3 is much rarer than Open 3. That is based on the switchover from Closed to Open occurring fairly early in the year. But the mint likely had a supply of already prepared Closed 3 dies when they started to switch, and they used them.

 

@Paddy54
?

 

Should I contact the dealer about this anomaly? They still have the coin in their inventory and I don’t want someone to overpay for a worn out 1873.

This isn’t as big as the 1909 VDB matte proof that wasn’t, but this is still a $1150 mistake. The price on the coin is $1195 in case anyone is wondering.

 

Wonder if PCGS would try to weasel out of the guarantee by claiming "mechanical error"?

 

I'd contact him only if you are friendly with this dealer and know he would welcome your input. In the past, I've contacted dealers about shield nickel issues only to be rebuffed with hostility when the dealer doesn't want to know that his coin is a lot less valuable than he thinks (has happened fairly often with purported 1883/2s that aren't).

In this case, I happen to know the seller/owner of the coin and I still am not going to contact him. Don't want to risk what has been a good working relationship.

Caveat emptor.

JMO.

 

I think the truth is more important than hurt feelings.
Especially when someone could be burned for a lot of money buying a coin
which is accidentally misrepresented.

 

It's not about hurt feelings. It's about whether you want to maintain a good relationship with a dealer to further your own collecting.

 

And screw over the other guy?
I may be in the minority, and I know this business/hobby has some unscrupulous people, but I expect more integrity in this game.

 

You wouldn't be screwing anyone else, and you aren't doing anything that lacks integrity. People who buy coins should educate themselves first.
Besides, anyone who did purchase this would be protected by PCGS' guarantee, so they are in much better shape than the average misrepresented 1873.