1905 French Rooster

Discussion in 'World Coins' started by furryfrog02, Apr 6, 2018.

  1. furryfrog02

    furryfrog02 Well-Known Member

    I just received this in the mail today from another forum member. She's a beautiful addition to my collection and I wanted to share. Thanks for looking :)
    1905 France 20 Francs.jpg
     
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  3. Dave M

    Dave M Francophiliac

    Beautiful coin, by one of my favorite designers
     
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  4. Kentucky

    Kentucky Supporter! Supporter

  5. lovecoinswalkingliberty

    lovecoinswalkingliberty Well-Known Member

    Beautyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
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  6. Pickin and Grinin

    Pickin and Grinin Well-Known Member

    I bought one of these over Christmas, I like the design.
     
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  7. furryfrog02

    furryfrog02 Well-Known Member

    This original one looks nice next to my 1907, which I am pretty sure is a restrike.
     
  8. Pickin and Grinin

    Pickin and Grinin Well-Known Member

    I had no idea about restrikes?
     
  9. furryfrog02

    furryfrog02 Well-Known Member

    Dates from 1907-1914 were restruck in, I believe, the 50s using the original dies.
     
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  10. Pickin and Grinin

    Pickin and Grinin Well-Known Member

    Mine is a 1905 also, Does that make the original strikes from 07 -14 more valuable?
     
  11. furryfrog02

    furryfrog02 Well-Known Member

    That I don't know. Nor do I know how you would be able to tell the difference.
     
  12. sakata

    sakata Devil's Advocate

    I'd never heard about restrikes. I have several roosters and thought them all original. Not sure of the dates as I am not on the computer with my inventory. What about angels?
     
  13. Dave M

    Dave M Francophiliac

    The dates fro 1907-1914 were re-struck in 1921 and then again from 1951-1960. I'm not aware of a definitive way to tell whether a 1907-14 coin was original or later, though it's said the newer ones are a bit more red and the strikes are better than the originals.

    I do not think the angels were re-struck, though I haven't studied them much.
     
  14. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    I have looked in all the books, both US and French, and I could never find anything written that explains a way. And since the original dies were used there are no strike diagnostics that help. But I have to wonder if perhaps the color change you mention would not be the key to telling the difference. Here's some examples I used to own, an '07 and an '08 to compare.

    1907_Fr_20_franc_obv.jpg 1907_Fr_20_franc_rev.jpg



    1908_Fr_20_franc_obv.jpg
    1908_Fr_20_franc_rev.jpg


    The color difference of the restrikes is explained by the alloy used. The originals had a gold and silver alloy while the restrikes had a gold and copper alloy - that's why the one has a yellowish cast and the other a reddish cast. Gold content in both is the same.

    That said, you can't use color alone as a definitive method because toning can also account for color. However, a couple of years ago Tyler's Museum in the Netherlands ran modern, non-destructive test (using XRF) on approx 300 of the Netherlands gold ducats in their collection to determine the actual gold fineness of the coins. The results were quite interesting indeed, and impressive, but that's another story.

    My point is that XRF technology can tell you the various metals content in very precise numbers and with very degree of accuracy. So, if one were to use an XRF on Roosters, then you could tell which was a restrike and which was original by determining the silver vs copper content. And it would be definitive.

    It's a rather simple test that only takes seconds per coin and anyone with an XRF could do it.
     
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  15. Dave M

    Dave M Francophiliac

    Very neat info on XRF, thank you. As a collector of first date of issue, I suppose it would help me ensure I have a 1907 and not a 1950 or some other hidden date.
     
  16. furryfrog02

    furryfrog02 Well-Known Member

    Here is my 1907 Rooster. I looked at my 2 side-by-side and they are the same color. Not that it is a great indicator between original and restrike.
    1907 France 20 Francs.jpg
     
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  17. Zonker

    Zonker Active Member

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