My first English hammered coin, need a hand with attribution/value

I picked up my first of such coins just recently, it was among a group of more modern world silver. As I don't own any relevant reference material I am asking for the community's assistance.
My research so far leads me to believe it is a groat of Richard III. It measures ~25.5mm and weighs 2.73 grams. Mint mark looks like sun and rose. The coin has a nice gray patina with remnants of luster as well as golden and rainbow toning in some of the protected areas. My iphone pictures don't really do it much justice unfortunately.

I'm not sure of the exact variety or sub-type and especially clueless on what it's worth. The prices I have seen for hammered groats are all over the place, from under a hundred to over a few thousand.

Greatly appreciate your help! If you ever have questions about world coins from the 18th century and later I will gladly return the favor

 

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Wow! If that is your first English hammered you have done extraordinarily well! I wish I could pick up one of those in a mixed bag.
Yes - appears to be Richard III groat, mint mark Sun & Rose halved, type 2. Minted in London between 1483 and 1485. I believe this is S2157 in the Coins of England book. Value in my 2011 edition is given as GBP600 in Fine and GBP1750 in Very Fine.
Dare I ask what you paid for it?

 

Definitely a Richard 111 groat. obverse mint mark looks to be Sun and Rose halved type 2 consistent with S2157, the reverse mint mark is unclear to me and there are lots of mules.
Certainly a rare and valuable coin in this condition (solid English VF, or EF40 or stronger US grade IMHO).
Coins of England 2016 has S2157 in English VF (highest grade listed) at GBP1850!
I would try and get reverse mint mark truly identified to be sure but all Richard 111 groats are rare and valuable in this grade!

 

@Numismat if I were you I’d be shouting “Dilly, dilly” right now and going back for more of where that mixed lot came from!

Steve

 

Wow, thanks guys. Didn't realize it was worth that much. Hammered coins are tough to navigate without the proper knowledge and references.

Where is the reverse mint mark if you don't mind me asking. I thought it was just the one above the bust.

That would be eBay. Sometimes you get lucky I suppose

Not enough apparently. No one bid against me so I ended up paying a little over $20 per ounce for the lot. Even more odd was that it was the second time the lot was listed. First time had no bidders at all.

 

Reverse mint mark is at 1 o'clock on the reverse, to the left of the x stop, above the D in London.
Can you send the link to the lot you purchased?

 

I don't think that is the reverse mintmark - that is a letter. I think the mintmark is just after 3 o'clock on the reverse - you can make out the same split Sun & Rose there before the P of POSUI.

 

Thanks. It was item # 142734208312 when I bid. Actually turns out it was less than $20 per ounce now that I look back at it. Was previously listed as item 142725721026 and 142725714724 with no bidders. I guess because it's hard tell what it is from the photos.

Link since item number searches are bugged https://www.ebay.com/itm/5-oz-Colle...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649

 

Yes indeed Paddy B, I stand corrected!

 

I hope the seller is not following this thread - he will be pretty sick by now! I would have given $20 for the lot even without the hammered gem - at least I would have without the crippling postage to the UK.

 

Truly an amazing find. This is among the most sought after issues in the English series, primarily because of the notoriety of Richard III. From the photo it appears absolutely authentic, but the circumstances of the sale and the lot composition would make me suspicious. Given the value, authentication might be a worthwhile investment.

 

About a month ago I purchased my first Hammered English coin these could become addicting .

 

I repeated the original post on a UK based forum, and this was the response:

"Davissons sold one in far worse condition in 2015 for $2800 (E12 Lot 61) "

That confirms you got a mega-bargain!

 

PaddyB what value would you place on my groat above the Henery vi? Thanks Paddy

 

@Paddy54 - I am no expert on these, but I think yours is the Pinecone-mascle issue of 1431-1433 and obviously minted in Calais. Henry VI is much more common than Richard III I'm afraid!
My 2011 copy of Coins of England gives this one (S1875) at GBP135 in VF (which yours is). Prices have been good recently for quality hammered coins, so maybe up to GBP250, but I would be surprised if it made much more.
This is mine, which is Rosette-mascle issue and is similarly priced in the book and in similar grade. Not sure what it is worth now - I have had it for years and not looking to replace it!

 

Thanks Paddy I paid around $200 and yes it is in Vf. Grade. You are also correct as to its from Pinecone-mascle lot.

 

I am truly amazed. If only I had this kind of luck with the lotto

 

I am relieved - I have just been on a long walk in the fresh springtime air and have been worrying that you had paid a grand for it and would be highly disappointed!