1798 Large Cent...

..please offer up a grade and fair market value for this 1798 Large Cent. Plus, if anyone is able to identify which variety it is that would be great too. Thanks.

 

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With the amount of detail in the inner periphery and very little of the rims and Lettering inside the rims! I would say that the coin is a fake as coins do not wear in this manner.


Frank

 

what frank said...or a bad toolie job.

 

Yeah, thats sort of a type 1 1/2 hair isnt it? Not like a type 1 or 2.

 

Does everyone think this coin is a fake? It looks real to me. There also appears to be a die crack on the reverse which runs though the fraction and on up through the "E" in United. This is a known error isn't it?

 

gopher,

I am sorry to to tell you but the majority of Counterfeiters use real specimens of coins to make the Molds or crude Dies that they use to make counterfeit coins! Also, the coin used, may have had a Die Crack but in many cases, the Counterfeiters will fake a Die Crack within the Mold or Die to make the counterfeited coin appear more genuine.

We can not be 100% or even 90% sure that the coin is a fake without having it in hand and by weighing and measuring the diameter of the coin. Therefore, you might want to take the coin to a respectable Coin Dealer in your area to have it checked.


Frank

 

I guess I will take it to a local dealer and see what he thinks. I'm certainly no expert but I have encountered counterfeit coins before and usually they are fairly easy to identify (ie cast appearance, different color metal underneath). There isn't anything about this piece that makes me suspicious. I will concede that the coin does show a great deal more wear on the outer edges than in the center area but is this not possible? I figured the coin just suffered from a greater degree of corrosion in those areas. To me, the coin looks genuine and with strong VG - Fine details but appears to suffer from corrosion and appears to have been previously cleaned. Oh well, I'll take it to a professional when I get a chance.

 

Gopher29,

Did you buy this locally?

PM me if you did, heck PM me if you didn't I still know a few people you can talk to for an honest opinion.

 

Looks real to me. I would recommend going to heritage and looking at the variety S-166 for 1798. I also believe wear patterns on early copper coins can vary. I have seen several that had strong centers and were weaker around the rims.

On a side note I have also had two separate dealers tell me that measuring and weighing do not necessarily mean a coin is fake. My local dealer told me to bring in any coins I have questions about - like it was mentioned the coin in hand is what they have to have.

 

Thanks. You are right, my coin appears to be a Shelby S-166 variety. I have not yet had a chance to bring it to a dealer and get a professional opinion but as I stated earlier, I have the coin in my possession and, in my opinion, it looks genuine. Here is a photo taken from largecents.net which shows an example of this variety. Notice that the coin pictured here also appears to display a weak strike in the "LIBE" of Liberty. Additionaly, this coin could be said to be weaker in general around the outer perimeter than it is in the center.

 

As a matter of fact about the only thing you can see on mine is the center of the reverse and the die crack. If I get a chance I will take a picture this weekend. But for $30 it is not much of a coin.

 

Post a picture if you can. I only paid $50 for mine. 1798 Large Cents have gotten quite expensive in the higher, problem free grades. So I figured for G-4 money it was worth taking a chance on that coin. Now that I have it in hand, I'm thinking it might grade a net VG-8 (assuming it's indeed genuine).

 

I told you it is not as nice as yours, but I can't complain for $30.

 

Nice coin for $30 mark_h. It looks like a problem free AG-3.

As far as my 1798 cent goes: I took it to a local dealer today and he told me he sees nothing about the coin that looks fake. He is a dealer that has 30+ years experience and he spent several minutes closely examining this coin under magnification. He said that in his opinion this coin is genuine and that he would buy it from me if I wanted to sell it. I expressed to him the concerns posted here and he told me that it is not unusual for these early cents to have a significantly greater amount of wear around the edges than in the middle. In fact, he said he has even seen these coins with obverses that would grade much higher than their reverses and vice-verse. He also stated that he believes the LIBERTY on this piece was initially weakly struck and that a combination of corrosion and striking through a worn die explains this coins irregular appearance. As far as a grade goes, he stated that the center of the coin has FINE details but that, because of all the corrosion, he can only give my coin a net grade of AG-3. I disagree with him on that one point and believe my coin is at least a net G-4. As I explained to him, this coin has a bold and complete date which is highly sought after and hard to find on these lower grade copper specimans from the late 18th century.

 

I agree with your grade and the reason my coin was so cheap was the weak date. Dealer down at LNE told me basically the same thing.

 

That was the first thing that came to me as well (not to take anything away from what the OP said, or his dealer). It may have been done eons ago, or just be the lighting, dirt, etc.

 

What exactly do you mean when you say "bad toolie job"?

 

Someone goes in and deepens or retraces the lines a bit to add detail that has been lost over the years, or cleans up the edge lines, or surfaces, etc. Sometimes it's very obvious and you can't miss it, due to it looking very unnatural. Sometimes it's not all that obvious and you'd probably miss it, like this one...

http://cgi.ebay.com/1909-S-BARBER-H...ageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem?_trksid=p1638.m118

 

I personally do not think it has been tooled. I am no expert on tooling, but I would have expected more detail ont he high points of the coin that would not be consistent with the wear. Again I am not positive, I just do not think so.

 

1798 cent

The coin is definitely a S-166. This is a Large 8, Type II hair variety. It's the most (or second most) common 1798 variety. I'm virtually certain it's NOT a fake. S-166 as a whole never has an even strike. I would net it VG.

Tom Deck
http://www.largecents.net