Collector ethics

What if it's a little old lady running a coin shop

 

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First and foremost: was he a "dealer" or even simply playing one? If yes, they've made a decision to either present themselves as a professional and/or to enter into the retail market. With such decisions comes the responsibility to know what one is selling, and really is as simple as that. This is why eBay picking is kosher; no one forced the seller to take a retail route and possibly undervalue what they do not know or understand. If in trying and/or wanting to achieve a higher price they just happen to open themselves up to a loss, so be it. We all have choices to make...

Now, people make mistakes and sometimes it's perfectly reasonable to do someone a solid by pointing one out, but in a case like this where he was again able to examine the coin? Clear conscience.

No reasonable individual can expect someone holding a yard sale to be an expert or even remotely familiar with what they're selling. In a case like this where one isn't attempting to enter into or benefit from the retail market, nor are they presenting themselves as a professional, one should kindly inform them imo.

 

I "did a dealer a solid" one time by turning over a 1913-P Barber half from their generic Barber box. It got me an extra $10 or $20 on something I sold to them -- and then they super-lowballed me on the next several things I offered them. The lesson I took away was that I was probably a fool to point it out to them, instead of buying and flipping it, but more a fool if I kept trying to sell to them.

 

Don't be hatin' dog...

Contrary to popular belief (at least today), it's not always about what we get in return, but what we can say about ourselves.

 

Which is really why no one feels bad about picking them for something. Granted not ever dealer would be like that, but enough are that you just have to assume they are until proven otherwise

 

This is one of those interesting situations I've also found myself in. Did you do anything wrong by buying and flipping the coin? Not really. Was it unethical? Well, a little bit, but that's because business often accepts a certain amount of unethical behavior. Business has its own moral code. I've intentionally and sneakily underpaid for more than one thing in my life, but it always bothered me in the end so I stopped doing it. Basically, I decided that I don't want to live in a world where people knowingly take advantage of each other, even on a small scale. Of course this happens every day and often it doesn't hurt anything or anybody, but it does bother me once in a while. Of course I can't change this so I just accept it, otherwise I'd go mad. But I try to do my part.

The following story really happened and it might make some of you question my judgment. I went to a local coin store a few years ago and the owner wasn't there so the shop was instead watched by one of the assistants. I asked about an ancient coin that didn't have a price on it. I expected it to cost $75 - $100. The assistant looked at it and said "I have no idea what this thing should cost. Let's just say $25 and not tell the boss." And he winked at me. It was a pretty decent looking Roman Republic coin. I actually told him that I didn't think $25 was enough. I said that out loud. He looked at me puzzled and then looked at the coin for a long time saying nothing. Finally, he said "well, how about $50?" I accepted $50 and bought the coin, though I still didn't think that was enough. There were 4 unpriced Roman Republics in the case (these were in a locked case and not in a junk box or a bargain bin) and he likely would have sold them all to me for $100. I just bought the one coin and left, feeling like I missed out on a sweet deal but also feeling good that I didn't try to rip off a local coin store. I go back and forth on whether I did the right thing. I will probably never know. Oh well.

 

I guess I am the only one here who says it would be best to say to the dealer "do you know this one isn't a common date?" Just because something isn't unethical doesn't mean it is the right thing to do. I understand you brought it to his attention, and he still didn't change the price. But you knew it and didn't tell him it is worth way more. People make mistakes. Maybe he doesn't see too well, or maybe he was preoccupied with something more serious at the time. For me, I am not out to make a quick buck and am not motivated by money. It doesn't matter if everyone disagrees with me, and no one here will give me a response to win me over, nor am I looking for an argument, but I think it was wrong.

What if he was selling them only because he needed money for something important and every dollar counted? To say "he should have known what he is selling" is a very used-car-salesman response because it justifies taking advantage of another.

The same logic goes the other way as well. If I buy a coin as a new collector and I didn't know it was harshly cleaned, or had a big scratch I didn't see, or the rim was bent, and the dealer knows it is a garbage coin, it isn't right to sell that to me without letting me know. To simply say "I should know what I am buying" is a cop out answer and comes off as sleazy and dishonest.

This is a lot of what I see with sellers on eBay. In my experience, there are more dishonest sellers of coins than honest ones, especially for raw coins. Altered photos, using stock photos, selling crackouts of details grades, trick lighting (angling it to mask blemishes, scratches, or ugly toning) are common place because people who got stuck with garbage want to pawn it off now to someone else. Can you imagine if all commerce were this way with the same rationales?

This is what happens when your wallet is your guide instead of your conscience. Clearly the OP feels bad enough to pose the question because his conscience is tugging at him a bit.

 

All common in lower grades, so easy to see how that slipped through. Like has been mentioned, sometimes the person who really got shorted is a link or two back in the chain....interesting question to ponder.

 

Then his business is about to fail anyway. That’s like saying what if lightning hit you.

It’s only untpethical if you talk the coin down

 

Probably was a bulk lot and that 89-o got in. It happens. Especially if him or somebody else had a big estate or collection with a Morgan dollar accumulation send them to pcgs for a bulk economy submission pull the better grades out and put the rest out for the bullion type buyers. I’ll be the first to admit I very seldom look up die varieties I concentrate on good surfaces and eye appeal and getting that graded. So if you cherrypick a good variety off me congratulations I won’t be at all upset and you’ll probably be back to do business again we’re all in this business to make money and if I sell it at a profit then I’m happy if you do as well.

 

Legally (disclaimer IANAL) Jason did nothing wrong... it's all basic commercial law as I was taught in B-school. He made an offer (based on the dealer's indication), the dealer accepted the offer. Transaction done.

@baseball21 - It would even be fine if he had offered $50 - dealer is free to accept, decline or counter.

It would also have been fine if the dealer countered "oops that was in the wrong box, its 190".

It's open and between participants of reasonably equal position and knowledge.

It's different if the Cable company says "we said 59.99, but for you, that's a nice 65" 4K TeeVee youse got, for you it's 99.99" because their (semi)monopoly position renders the negotiations unequal. [Sadly it would probably be OK if there was an asterisk on their ads aying "large TVs more expensive, see our website for details"]

Morally, I think @Mainebill hit the nail - everybody made something, using their chosen level of knowledge. Both specialized to their choosen role.

Bill could have spent the long northern winter gaining an extensive, encyclopedic knowledge of VAMs and die states. But then he'd be Jason - an inch wide and a mile deep - instead of Bill - a mile wide but only an inch deep.

Thankfully, there is room under our tent for both!

 

I have gone both ways on a deal like this. A few times the money difference was too great for me to feel good about taking the coin.
I once knew this really nice old dealer that was always making mistakes in pricing. I was always pointing out something he needed to take a second look at.
This grew a great trust and friendship between us that lasted 40 something years. He would pull me behind the counter when he needed help and he knew I had his back. I really miss the guy.

 

Well, im not losing any sleep on this deal if anyone was wondering.
Heres another scenario-
The dealer might have poor eyesight.
You enquire about a coin and the dealer pulls out his greysheet and gives you a price.
He looks at it wrong and under charges you by $200 . What then?? Is it best to inform him of the mistake?? Again, why should I, as a collector, be more knowledgeable on prices than a dealer??? I guess the main reason why i dont feel the urge to be a good Samaritan, is because ive been raped when selling items.
Its not a good feeling when you are desperate for cash and a dealer offers blue sheet prices for undergraded, top notch, beaming luster and/or rainbow toned coins!!
Turn around is fair play imo

 

My gut was right, the 89-O seemed the better one. Good score in my opinion, you did nothing wrong.

 

I hear that. I don’t study vams I only really look at certain die varieties but I focus totally on eye appeal and good surfaces and coins that are properly graded and generally nice. So if you decide to cherrypick me you’re going to buy a nice coin regardless. I’ll be in Manchester nh next week by the way setup Thursday and Friday

 

I honestly don't see how anyone could believe you did anything wrong. As long as you make no misrepresentations or deception it is not your responsibility to make sure a seller knows what they're selling, whether they're a dealer, private collector, heir to a collection, etc.

 

He may have been confused between 89-O and 98-O. Nice cherry pick...

 

Unethical. As a collector, this sort of find is fine and happens- dealers make mistakes and we cherrypick. But when you immediately flip it, you are acting as a dealer. Dealers should be let each other know when they have made mistakes. Common courtesy and a way to build relationships. Did you burn your bridge with this dealer?

 

I had a similar situation at my LCS. There was a MS Red 1970 S LMC in the case. I asked to look at it and it was a small date, which I pointed out to the clerk. He said there was no such thing as a 1970 S small date and I was thinking about the 1960 cent. So, I bought it for $1. Shame on the seller for not knowing what they have. You did well. Congrats!