I'm suspicious of this coin

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by chrsmat71, Mar 13, 2018.

  1. chrsmat71

    chrsmat71 I LIKE TURTLES!

    Hey everyone,

    I need some input on this coin. I recently picked this up in a lot of coins (I posted it in Ancient Aussie's "ebay bargains thread" here...

    https://www.cointalk.com/threads/still-some-bargains-to-be-had-on-ebay.312390/page-2#post-3016568




    Now I'm getting around to doing individual pics of the coins, and several things about this coin struck me as unusual.

    Here is my new pic of the coin...

    100_2484.JPG


    #1 One, it's in high relief and pretty thick. Just seemed strange to me. Then again, I only have a few tetrach coins to compare it to, and looking at similar coins online at acsearch, it seems my weight is ok. (It is 25 mm and 10.1g) This one is very similar...

    https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=1025745


    #2 I did find similar fake coins of Diocletian from Aquileia on forums fake coin list that were modern Eastern European forgeries, but none of Galerius...but dang, they looked close in style. Here's one @maridvnvm submitted....

    http://www.forumancientcoins.com/fakes/displayimage.php?album=46&pos=57


    #3 It has a faint seam on portions of the edge, but no blatant signs of filing. Here is the best I can do with an edge pic. Also shows how thick the coin is and the high relief to some extent!


    100_3453.JPG

    #4 Why do both sides have tiny lines on them? Look on the face of Galerius and the bottom of the reverse (two small ones at top also). I thought they were cracks on the sellers pic, but they are little "seams" in the coin. That is strange isn't it? Like little die breaks? I just don't remember seeing something like that.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
  2. Avatar

    Guest User Guest



    to hide this ad.
  3. Sallent

    Sallent Live long and prosper

    I think it's fake. There are some fake LRBs out there today with decent looking fake patina
     
    dougsmit likes this.
  4. Mike Margolis

    Mike Margolis Well-Known Member

    coinfake.JPG This is the crack on the reverse? I don't know the LRBs well but this does look suspicious.
     
  5. chrsmat71

    chrsmat71 I LIKE TURTLES!

    Yeah, here is a pic showing where they run, then compare to the original higher res pic..

    100_2484.JPG

    But they aren't cracks, they are "seam like" elevated areas instead of little crevices.

    Like the die break on the nose of this LRB, just not nearly as pronounced.

    100_0046_zpshhivzbjc.jpg
     
  6. dadams

    dadams Well-Known Member

    Your coin looks to have been struck from dies that were cracked. I'm most familiar with die cracks on modern coins where it results in a raised line on the struck coin along where the die was cracked.

    I think there is a difference between a die break and a die crack.
     
    randygeki likes this.
  7. Pickin and Grinin

    Pickin and Grinin Well-Known Member

    Die cracks are raised on the coin.
     
    randygeki likes this.
  8. Jwt708

    Jwt708 Well-Known Member

    Those are for sure die cracks. I have never seen an ancient cracked like that...but I'm not an expert.
     
    randygeki likes this.
  9. ominus1

    ominus1 Well-Known Member

    idk about the flan, but i've never seen legends like that..
     
  10. gsimonel

    gsimonel Well-Known Member

    Without seeing the coin in hand, I can't verify its authenticity. But I see nothing wrong with the coin stylistically. Your coin dates from around 301 A.D. (if legit). This is relatively soon after the monetary reform of Diocletian, and thick, high relief folli were the norm at that time.
     
  11. zumbly

    zumbly Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana

    I have to say I don't like it, Chris. I'm no expert, but apart from the unusual die cracks on both sides, the portrait style looks off for Aquileia, the legends have a "soapy" look, and the letterforms strike me as odd (especially the Q in the mintmark).
     
    Caesar_Augustus likes this.
  12. randygeki

    randygeki Coin Collector

    Maybe it's an ancient cast. A clay mold could explain the seem and cracks.
    b7604.jpg
     
  13. Ken Dorney

    Ken Dorney Yea, I'm Cool That Way...

    Generally based on the photos I would say the coin is ancient. The right kind of casting seams are not unusual on ancients (as the planchets were all cast). It has a slightly 'barbaric' look to the style and lettering and that combined with what looks like die cracks (or as @randygeki point out) might be cracks in a forgers mould, I would say its likely an ancient forgery. Its very interesting.
     
  14. RAGNAROK

    RAGNAROK Naebody chaws me wi impunitY

    Ancient forgery, imho. The first one I see on this type. A rare example. I would keep it waiting an upgrade.
     
  15. chrsmat71

    chrsmat71 I LIKE TURTLES!

    Thanks for the input everyone! It certainly is an interesting coin, whatever it is. I hadn't even considered that it could be a ancient forgery.
     
  16. rrdenarius

    rrdenarius non omnibus dormio Supporter

    An ancient cast copy seems like an ok answer, but I do not know how they would have applied a silver wash to a cast coin. I thought low grade silver coins were acid washed and then struck to give the silver coat. Maybe one of our LRB experts here can add some light on that.
    I just bought a Diocletian / Moneta because it has a great pic of how to hold an equal arm scale. Note the finger technique on both coins below. It looks like how the three stooges were taught to hold a tea cup. I do not have a Claudius / scale quadrans yet.
    Diocletian Moneta scales MA shops boersema.jpg
    Diocletian AD 284-305, AE silvered Follis
    Obv - IMP DIOCLETIANVS P F AVG; Laur. bust r.
    Rev - SACR MONET AVGG ET CAESS NOSTR; AQS in ex.; VI in r. field; Moneta standing l. holding scales and cornucopia
    Mint: AQS = Aquileia
    Mint Date: 302 - 303 AD
    Grade: VZ; EF, some minor striking weakness on rev.
    28mm
    9.43 g
    RIC 35; Paolucci 17
    Seller Gert Boersema Ancient Coins of MA Shops

    quadrans 41-54AD Roman Claudius CNG.jpg
    Quadrans of Claudius sold by CNG.

    madame zuzu tea cup hold.png
     
  17. chrsmat71

    chrsmat71 I LIKE TURTLES!

    Now that's a nice lookin' tetrach moneta! I forgot we have a tetrach follis specialist, @jamesicus any ideas?
     
  18. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    I bought this Constantius I follis as an ancient cast product of such molds.
    ru3880bb2110.jpg
     
  19. chrsmat71

    chrsmat71 I LIKE TURTLES!


    That's interesting!

    So was casting ancient AE to pull a fast one? I can't see them making much money of faking these. Or was it an unofficial coinage or something like that? Kind of like conder tokens to fill in a short term lack of coinage?

    I kind of hope mine is an ancient cast, that's pretty darn cool.
     
  20. maridvnvm

    maridvnvm Well-Known Member

    I have been out of the loop for a while and just catching up.

    Now what do you say when comparing the coin in question to this one (from the fake reports. sold as part of a set of reproductions back in 2008):-

    [​IMG]
     
    David@PCC, zumbly and Alegandron like this.
  21. maridvnvm

    maridvnvm Well-Known Member

    Here is a Diocletian that was sold as part of the same set...

    [​IMG]

    And a Constantius Chlorus

    [​IMG]

    Along side this Claudius.

    [​IMG]
     
    Andres2, chrsmat71 and Alegandron like this.
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page