eBay Victory Challenging "No Returns on Unslabbed Coins"

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The seller should have put the coin blank in a 2 x 2, placed it on a scale with his description on the 2 x 2 and then taken a photo for his listing. Then you could have weight it for verification. You probably would not have purchased this if he did as you could have checked the weight beforehand.

 

Wait, I'm confused... how could my post be remotely insulting? Essentially all I asked was if the seller was Low Country Coins. Because I haven't heard of many bad experiences with them.

 

The OP has shown himself to be both a thoughtful and reasonable individual, so I want to be clear that the below is not directed at him.

From a buyer's perspective, opening sealed flips may seem perfectly reasonable, and is why this must be looked at from a seller's POV. The policy of opening the flip/holder voiding return privileges isn't new, and the entire purpose was in a small way to help protect against the many unscrupulous "collectors" out there. Aside from the obvious games that can stem from allowing unknown buyers to remove coins, just think of the near countless ways coins can be damaged, accidentally, intentionally, or through ignorance. Why should a seller have to shoulder full responsibility for a coin in someone else's possession?

Anyone who has been so unfortunate to be on the receiving end of the even the more innocuous games buyers play should well understand why it's a perfectly fair and intelligent policy. There is also a very easy way around it: just ask. Respectful discourse is generally a good thing, and is much more likely to help result in favorable outcomes for all involved.

As a general rule though, I firmly believe an opened flip should automatically nullify any and all reasons for return other than authenticity, and is particularly true for in-person transactions.

 

No. I said I was not insulted by you saying maybe I tried to trick him. I know that kind of stuff happens. Just not by me.

 

You're thinking he was saying you did it, hes asking if you bought it from someone else who was reselling one of their coins

 

Oh. I am sorry. Now I understand.

 

YES. Thanks.

 

What I found most interesting is that the seller never sent me a return message after I told him it was not silver. I emailed him 5 minutes after it was delivered. In fact, my email was sent before eBay even recorded it was delivered.

There was no "oh my God, I am so sorry" or "what the heck are you talking about" or "hey, pal, there is a no return policy." I mean, no response at all. To me, that is suspicious behavior. I waited 30 minutes, called eBay, asked them to compare his photo and mine to illustrate it is the same coin, and that his no return policy should not hold up. They called me back later to say whether he accepts the return or not, my photos prove he can't claim the coin isn't his, that the listing is fraudulent, and that either through him or eBay I will get all my money back plus shipping .

Honest men never, ever plead guilty or refuse to defend themselves when accused in these types of matters, especially when put in writing.

 

The only problem I have with that whole narrative you just wrote is the 30 minutes. Do you really think that people camp out on EBay in case a buyer sends a question? I don't log on every day, even if I have open auctions. You should have waited at least 48 hours. Perhaps he did not reply because by the time he logged on EBay had already judged against him.

 

eBay actually gives him a few business days to respond and give his side. I don't remember if it is 3 or 5. The seller is also the one who approved the request; it was not yet directed by eBay for him to do so this quickly.

Also, in my previous job, immediate action at the recognition of a violation of a contract is a factor when filing a claim. (I can hear a lawyer now: "Mr. X...why did you wait 3 entire days to file this case when you knew about the issue immediately upon receipt?") So, no, I don't believe people camp out on eBay. He could have been driving across the country and not been able to respond to respond in 30 minutes. He could be in jail or at his tax preparer's office. But, in my experience, one should always act quickly and not wait once you realize you have been wronged by another party, especially in matters of contract law and/or criminal charges. I know as sellers and dealers many of you may hate this particular answer, but it is the smartest thing to do to help your case. This whole situation stinks with the seller's actions. Everything from posting a photo of the coin on a scale showing "90% silver" to him still not contacting me to explain or apologize, to not even questioning or disputing my assertion. There is such a thing as actions illustrating "consciousness of guilt" and this case is a perfect example. Not only do I know I am right that his no return policy should be overturned, but I do believe his actions were done purposely to defraud me. Absolutely.

 

You complained that

but then admitted that you did not give him enough time. You are being inconsistent. Again, I am not saying I disagree with your case, but your presentation is beginning to lose sympathy.

 

I am not looking for sympathy. Why would I? I got refunded. My purpose with this post was not for that. It was about the importance of taking good photos to prove your case when dealers state no return policies on unslabbed coins to protect yourself. The fact that eBay is overly generous to buyers is not my fault, nor is it my fault that sometimes legitimate dealers get scammed by others.

And I am not being inconsistent at all. I responded to him ASAP, as people should do. He could have had 3/5 business days, but instead he chose to refund me in just a few hours. I did not demand my refund that quickly. EBay didn't demand him to repay that quickly. He was entitled to make his case. He didn't request ebay's form of arbitration, which he also has a right to once the decision for a refund was made. Cases have been overturned after eBay initially stated they would demand a seller refund. I understand many people here are dealers or sellers who may have been burned by this policy, and they are annoyed that yet another seller was ordered to pay a refund despite a no-return policy, but what's right is right.

 

I meant even to this second, nothing. I would be mortified if I sold someone something that wasn't legitimate. I would contact them even after I gave a refund to ensure this was absolutely a mistake and I would like you to come back...something...but nothing. Again, evidence of consciusness of guilt.

 

On another question,

How accurate are those Sigma O Metal Verifier?

I know a coin store that uses one but I was under the impression that anything less than a XRF analyzer isn't very accurate, but those XRFs are very expensive.

 

Not in the case of eBay it's not. The dumbest thing a seller can do on eBay is engage buyers with a complaint in long drawn out communication. There are MANY buyers who as soon as they get something will start making claims trying to get a discount or get something for free or try and get sellers to say something in a message that allows them to file a SNAD case to not have to pay for a return. There is a reason why pretty much every seller keeps communication to a minimum and responses short.

You need to forget about everything you know for how people should act in situations because the system they have in place makes it very counterproductive for sellers to act that way. There are it's own set of rules for what is smart and what isn't for how sellers have to act there.

 

Very informative here. I totally can see your points and understand completely. I am not a dealer, and only sold a couple things. It is nice to hear stuff like this from experienced people who have sold items and had these issues. Thanks for being assertive and informative without being rude. And that goes for everyone's comments in this exchange. I wish people in government could be this nice to each other. Thanks to everyone.

 

Because the unfortunate truth is that there is no real competition or alternative. From a buyer side it’s risk free you can do whatever and even scam people and they’ll cover you most of the time at first anyway. From the selling side the fees are so much lower that even with a couple scams a year you’re coming out ahead of where you would be selling to dealers or using other auction houses.

Everyone would love a legitimate challenger to eBay but so far no one wants to do it or they get greedy and raise their fees after some success making eBay the clear winner again.

Good people aren’t outnumbered by bad there. There are bad peoples for sure but the overwhelming majority are good. You’ll never see people making tons of threads about what a solid experience they had or sellers saying another 50 sucxsssful transactions today ect.

It’s the yelp effect in play with these treads. People are far more likely to make a negative experience or unusual one public than they are when things went as they expected.