Question - Elagabalus Tetradrachm?

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by gsimonel, Feb 25, 2018.

  1. gsimonel

    gsimonel Well-Known Member

    I have this coin that I got in a bulk lot without any information. It looks like a typical 3rd century Alexandrian tetradrachm. The problem is the size. It's only 18 mm and weighs 7.9 g. Is this still a tetradrachm, or is it another denomination? Here's the coin and the information that I've been able to figure out so far:
    Elagabalus.jpg
    Roman Provincial Potin _?_
    Egypt, Alexandria, A.D. 219-220
    Elagabalus, A.D. 218-222
    Emmett 2939?
    Obv: AK KAY [A?] AVR ANTΩNINOC
    Rev: Nike walking right, holding wreath in hand and palm branch over shoulder.
    LΓ (= Regnal Year 3) in right field.

    Does what I've written above seem correct? And while I've got your attention, what in the world is that between his legs? I've found another coin of his with a similar blob here: https://www.vcoins.com/en/stores/sp...g_right_holding_wreath_vf/931971/Default.aspx
    [​IMG]
     
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  3. Ancient Aussie

    Ancient Aussie Well-Known Member

    Great coin with nice patina, I am pretty sure the blob is Nike's dress/drapery...on this coin from CNG sold it is a bit clearer.
    819216.jpg
    CNG archives has most coins between 12-13 gm and the low weight in the 10 plus so your one is definitely a lightweight probably just a minting error.
    see link...https://www.cngcoins.com/Search.asp...R_TYPE_ID_2=1&SEARCH_IN_CONTAINER_TYPE_ID_4=1
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2018
  4. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    Yes, it is still a tetradrachm. Yours is not Elagabalus though. The denomination grew smaller in the later years of Roman Egypt and the metal composition declined. Do you want to sort out who it is or would you like for me to tell you? Deciphering the often indistinct/worn/off flan legends can be difficult. I could get you started by correcting the initial sequence of the obverse legend.

    Her legs :)-- just the hem of Nike's garment, fluttering in the breeze.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2018
  5. ominus1

    ominus1 Well-Known Member

    ..inquire-ing minds want to know..is it SA?...
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2018
  6. Ancient Aussie

    Ancient Aussie Well-Known Member

    TIF's right it's probably one of the emperors from 270 AD to 305 AD.
     
    TIF likes this.
  7. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    No, much later.
     
    ominus1 likes this.
  8. ominus1

    ominus1 Well-Known Member

    :watching:
     
  9. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    I dunno... maybe it was those Chili-Cheeseburgers from the night before...

    I have a lite-weight Tet:

    RI Carinus 282-285 CE BI Potin Tet Alexandria Egypt 19mm Athena Seated holding Nike.jpg
    Roman Empire
    Carinus (r. CE 282-285)
    Egypt, Alexandria
    Potin Tetradrachm Dated yr. 2
    19 mm x 8.14 grams
    Obv: Laureate bust right. Greek Legend - A K M A KAPINOC CEB
    Rev. Athena seated left holding Nike and Spear. Dated L-B
    Ref: Emmett 4001 2a
    Ex: Mr @Ancientnoob
     
  10. H8_modern

    H8_modern Attracted to small round-ish art

    From the portrait and few letters I think I can read, I think it’s Aurelian.
     
  11. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    Nope :D
     
  12. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    A tip: The letter omicron was often made more like a dot than an open circle and often preceded a V in a word we would not used the leading o. For example:
    pa2560fd2994.jpg
    The above Valerian I is not the same as the OP coin but it shows the beginning AK common to many rulers (so ignore it here) followed by Π ΛΙ οVΑΛEPIANOC for Publius Licinius Valerianus. The OP coin has AK (ignore) followed by a hard to read letter and oVA. After that is 'meat' you seek to name the ruler. Who had a family name starting with VA and a praenomen that might possibly be that hard to read bump? It is all given away by the letter following the oVA but telling that would be giving it away.
     
  13. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    Another tip specific to the OP coin: check the third letter. It is not a K.
     
  14. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    This thread also illustrates a problem with the photos we show. Few of us show scale. Alexandrian tetradrachms decreased in diameter gradually through the third century. A real expert (not I) could probably place a hundred coins in order of issue with reasonable accuracy simply because the Severans of 200 and the Tetrarchs of the last years vary greatly in size. Even a relative beginner to the series will soon learn that a coin of Elagabalus is considerably chunkier in every dimension than is a late period Diocletian/Maximianus/Constantus/Galerius. We also can eliminate coins based on other clues. A coins showing year three can not belong to a ruler who did not last over two. A coin dated year 30 has a very limited number of possible issuers. Coins starting with AVTO or AK (Autokrator and Autokrator Caesar) will be Augusti and not junior Caesars or women. Follow the clues and it all becomes a bit easier after a while.
     
  15. gsimonel

    gsimonel Well-Known Member

    So, putting Doug's clues together, (and getting a headache re-examining my coin thank you very much), AND having been reassured by TIF that it is a tetradrachm and not some obscure denomination, meaning that it was minted much later, toward the end of the lifespan of the tetradrachm, I'm guessing that the 3rd letter is a gamma and that the ruler is Diocletian. The size and weight are about right. The letter I originally called [A?] would be a delta, but everything after that is a mystery to me.

    Is it Diocletian?
     
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  16. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    Yes, it's Diocletian :).

    Your coin's legend begins AKΓoVA... (not sure if the next letter is a lambda or a delta; could be either and still work with known legends)

    filling in the abbreviated words:
    A(VTKPATΩP) K(AICAP) Γ(AIOC) oVA(ΛEPIOC)...

    translates to:
    Imperator Caesar Gaius Valerius... (the rest would be Diocletianus Augustus)
     
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  17. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    After the delta is a thick I and another of those dot like o things. The K is pretty clear but it goes downhill from there. Below is a year two of a different reverse with the same obverse.
    pa2677bb3059.jpg
    When shopping or Alexandrian coins we all have a desire for rare coins but extra clear, full legend coins of the very late period are pretty rare even if the type is common.
     
  18. gsimonel

    gsimonel Well-Known Member

    Thank you for straightening me out. Now that I know who it is, I appreciate you giving me the chance to figure it out.

    Doug, the legends on the above coin are amazing.
     
  19. ominus1

    ominus1 Well-Known Member

    ..i thought of Diocletian..but it's all Greek to me..(the big ear will be my ID on these from now on:))
     
    Alegandron likes this.
  20. gsimonel

    gsimonel Well-Known Member

    Funny thing is, I own one other Roman-era tetradrachm--it's also Diocletian.
    Diocletian1.jpg
    Here's the info:
    Egypt, Alexandria, A.D. 284-285.
    Potin tetradrachm of Diocletian, A.D. 284-305
    Obv: A K ΓO YAΛ ΔIOKΛHTIANOC CEB
    Rev: Dikaiosyne (Aequitas) seated, facing left, holding scales in right hand and cornucopia in left.
    LA (= regnal year 1) in left field.
     
  21. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    It's a very nice one, too!
     
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