My buddy has been buying the Sacagawea Proof 70 ULTRACAM NGC dollars for about $70 each. 2006S PF70 ULTRACAM. Why are these top quality SAC $s going so cheaply? They are graded by NGC. The CoinValues (2/08) list these at $450 & 425 for the '06 & '02. Is $70 - $90 a fair price or what's happening here? Bruce:secret:
Well, If he's been buying them that cheap I guess it's a fair price. I'm inclined to believe that the mint can turn out examples like this all day long with present technology. You may also consider that maybe someone is slabbing a ton of these so the numbers are there early. That's what irritates me about the PCGS (I know we're talking NGC here) guides. Inflated values based on population but if everyone slabbed all of these modern coins to what exponent would these numbers grow? One could probably buy the same coin raw at well under half the price then get it slabbed. Just my opinion. clembo
Considering almost 1/3 of them graded by NGC are 70s, that price seems about right relatively speaking (although it seems to be about $65-85 too much to me, and YMMV): http://ngccoin.com/poplookup/poplookup-reportlarge.asp?PopSubCatID=53&Designation=PF Respectfully...Mike p.s. did you just quote a price in CoinValues? lol Dream on, my friend...
Hi, some dates only one out of every 8 or 9 coins are graded Pf70. I think 2001 has a total of 660 Pf70 coins. So that makes the maximum amount of complete proof 70 Sacagawea sets allowed would be 660 sets. 660 sets seems like a low number to me. I think the Gold spouse coins drew away alot of interest in the Sacagaweas & other coins. The 2001 PF70 Sacagawea coins still sell in the $300-$350 range.
My problem with MS 70 and Pr 70 coins is, how do you reallyknow they are the perfect grade? What are you exactly doing when you purchase a MS 70 or a PR70 coin? IMO you are buying the slab, not the coin. How many of you are going to look under a microscope to see if it is a 70. Not that many, when it comes to the modern proofs and business strikes, just give me a raw example, and I'm happy. Just something that's been bugging me for awhile. All this is just my opinion and my two cents, pun not intended. Phoenix
Well. for one thing if it has a mark/ spot it won't grade a 70. But it can grade a 69. That's what i have discovered from dealers. A plus, the grading company stands behind their grade. They will replace the coin if it's under graded. Another grading plus, they authenicate the coin. I've read there have been quite a few fake seated liberty dollars, they think they might have come from Asia. I don't like spending money on a fake, worse yet would be to resale it to someone else. But buying raw coins sure has it's cost/ value benifits.
The grading company will replace a coin? I'm a bit confused here (honestly). I though NGC just graded coins not dealt in them. I suppose they could purchase one of their own graded coins to replace an over graded coin or they are sitting on a stash of coins. Doesn't sound right to me.
If you look at the POP reports for NGC versus PCGS, NGC hands out anywhere between 10 to 20 times MORE 70 grades than PCGS for the same coin, mintmark, and year. Hence, the market has responded to these liberal grading standards by driving these prices down. After all, they are available for a "dime a dozen" so to speak. Look for yourself...take the amount of 70 grades divided by the total number of submissions for the given coin for both NGC compared to PCGS and you will then understand why NGC 70 grades DO NOT hold water (or value) against a PCGS 70 grade...especially for any modern coins.
Given that the line between 69 and 70 is ARBITRARY to begin with, whose to say that one TPG's interpretation (PCGS) is any better or worse than another's (NGC)? To wit, the relative frequency of the NGC 70 coins keeps their prices down, so this grading standard is actually more collector-friendly that PCGS'. In my opinion (albeit not a popular one, particularly for modern slab collectors), the difference between the relative value of the NGC and PCGS coins is more due to marketing and registry sets (i.e. perception) than any real qualitiative difference in the coins. Said another way, for most moderns, the majority of the value is in the slab and NOT the coin. Respectfully....Mike
And of course it doesn't have anything to do with the fact that PCGS intentionally avoids assigning the 70 grade. How ya been Midas, haven't seen ya for a while :hail:
Been busy...but now that I have a wireless card, I can catch up with you guys between flights and all.
Not only that but they are coming from Asia in fake ANACS and Fake NGC slabs. (On the NGC forum we believe we may have a line on fake PCGS slabs as well but we are having to wait for the slab to arrive for close inspection.)
Wow! Not good! I guess the mint will have to start putting microchips in each coin, then they can be scanned. Maybe someday!
