I think I bought a fake. Help, please.

The OP pair are certainly both fakes unless they are the same coin. They are not the same die as the Forvm fake so it has no bearing. It is quite possible that the eBay photo was used for a crooked sale or by accident and it showed your coin before you (or the dealer you bought it from) had it. I would not destroy the coin until I had some evidence that the current eBay seller actually has that coin. I would give the VCoin dealer a chance to explain and refund whether or not he wants the coin back or expertised at his expense. Under the circumstances he might refund and tell you to keep it. It then could be shown around and save future owners of the same copies from falling victim to other copies. If there are two, there will be three and four and more show up.

 

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Surfaces are a red flag. Without independent examination by an expert under high magnification and a lifetime guarantee, I' stay away. Doesn't look like corrosion to me in that pic, but rather something more nefarious.

Now watch me be proven wrong. I do tend to be too conservative in my assessment of coins, and have probably passed on many a good coin because of a perceived "red flag" that most here would laugh at me for being too cautious about. I guess I'm a little paranoid by nature.

 

I agree. And I don't think it's a photo of the same coin. I just can't imagine why someone would cast a coin that had an obvious, unusual identifying graffito mark like that "E," which makes the fake instantly traceable, or makes it very easy to compare like coins. If I'm going to copy something, I'm going to copy as generic an original as possible for the type, minimizing the likelihood that the forgery will be found out, at least for a while. It's a strange choice for a cast fake.

 

This is a really interesting idea -- it never occurred to me that these two coins could actually be the same coin, and the seller is using it to sell his own coin. It's certainly possible, though.

I'll be curious to find out what the original dealer who sold the OP coin has to say.

 

duplicate

 

I’ve had several coins, as well as seen others coins bought from one site being listed on other sites. I had one coin I from vcoins still listed on ma shops 2 years later.


Can’t comment on the authenticity of this one myself though.

 

Doug makes a good point and we've seen that circumstance before here on CoinTalk. Didn't we recently have a situation where a coin someone bought months or years before was now in a Vcoins dealer inventory? It was simply a matter of the dealer not realize he loaded the wrong coin picture. It's easy to see how that could happen when you have a large volume of coins and have been in business for many years.

However, I believe there are enough differences in the two coins in question here to say that they are not the same coin.

(edited: Randy was posting the same thing at the same time )

Here's the OP coins again, with the eBay images "squished" a bit to compensate for the different in shooting angles.



Among other things, look at the hair bun and the hair tendrils. Look at the casting pearl just outside the dotted border on the 4:30 position of the reverse (eBay coin).

 

Just a note on destroying the coin, the ANA has a class on fake coins and can use examples. I donated a light weight, 65% silver diobol from Messambria to the cause.

 

They arent the same (or, to say, they arent photos of the exact same coin). If you look closely enough you will spot the many differences (I'm not good with editing photos to point them out). I still would suggest Gavin's coin might be genuine but simply the host for the copy. Someone willing to take the time might do some searching for known published dies.

 

Just out of curiosity, how much does an authentication service cost? I’m afraid that by the time I would go through the trouble of an external authentication, I would have spent an unacceptable percentage percentage of the coin itself. It’s not worth $100 to me to authenticate a $300 coin. It makes better sense on a $3000 coin. But I have none of those.

 

Sear charges $30 per coin. As I mentioned in an earlier post, you may want to discuss with who sold it to you how to proceed. He might pay for the cost.

http://www.davidrsear.com/certification.html

 

Took a quick look at this site and I think the basic fee is $45, not $30. The $30 is an extra fee for expedited service.

Still cheap, I think, for coins costing $300+

 

I think it is more like $40 per coin plus shipping of $17.50 as of April 2015 (the last time I sent him a coin for authentication).

 

Sorry, I just checked the site very quickly and saw the first dollar sign...

 

UPDATE:

I emailed the seller on Thursday and heard back today. The seller began his email with “You are right.” A good sign. The seller went on to explain that he had bought the coin at a German auction, and because the provenance was good, he did not more closely examine the coin. He apologized for its sale to me.

He did request the coin back as part of the process of filing a claim with the original German auction house.

So we are moving toward a resolution. But obviously I won’t be happy until I see that money in my PayPal account. Personally, I think it should be there right now. It seems that the seller is waiting for the return of the coin before issuing a refund.

I will keep you updated.

 

It is understandable that he will refund once the coin is in hand.

 

I have grown to expect the returned payment immediately. That's what has happened on each of the few occasions this has happened to me.

 

Glad to hear the seller was receptive. I hope your return goes smoothly.

So besides the casting pearl on the eBay example and the odd appearance of the example on the second page, does anything look off in hand on your example? The edge? I’m just wondering because at first glance it doesn’t look obviously cast or fake, which is worrying. The fact that there was still uncertainty about its authenticity onto this page is even more worrying.

 

It's easier to see and say things in retrospect, but I think the junctions of the devices and fields are not sharp, giving the coin a "soapy" appearance, as if the devices are melting into the flan. That's a characteristic of a cast coin.

 

There was really nothing to raise red flags to me with the coin in hand, though I own fewer than 10 denarii and have limited experience.

In hindsight, if anything seemed off, the silver seemed more like pewter to me, but again, I just assumed that’s what happens with old silver.

Here are some more images. Others might see concerns I or the seller couldn’t or didn’t notice.