Yea or Nay? (a 1565 Scottish coin this time)

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by lordmarcovan, Feb 20, 2018.

  1. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan Eclectic & Eccentric Moderator

    I haven't owned a Scottish coin yet.

    This one has surpassed my lowball starter bid, but there's still a little time to pursue it, if you think that's advisable. It'll require some sniping and bare-knuckle fighting to get it, perhaps, but if y'all think it looks authentic and have any suggestions on a fair bid price, I've got a little bit of coin money from recent sales to reinvest.

    It's also a "-65" coin, which is fun for me (1565 was exactly 400 years before my birthyear- and I'm of Scottish descent, too).

    1565 makes this more of a Renaissance/Early Modern coin than an Ancient, but I've chosen to solicit opinions here, since I know many of you are more advanced, savvy numismatists and might have some experience here. (As yet, I do not.)

    • Does it look OK to you?
    • If so, what do you think I should bid on it, roughly speaking?
    ScotlandRyal-obv.png ScotlandRyal-rev.png
     
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  3. paddyman98

    paddyman98 I'm a professional expert in specializing! Supporter

    Yes.. Looks OK to me :watching:
     
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  4. Paddy54

    Paddy54 Well-Known Member

    Is that a counter stamp on the coin?
    I alzo like the fact that the minter didn't have a full grip and the die took a bounce these were hammered correct?
    I sort of like it myself....if I were into collecting these yes very appealing coin with some neat stuff going on.... it be a nice addition.
     
  5. Nathan401

    Nathan401 Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

    Awesome coin!
     
  6. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan Eclectic & Eccentric Moderator

    Yes, it's counterstamped. An official counterstamp, I believe. And yes, a hammered coin. A rather big hammered coin. I've seen others, though I'm still not really in the know about this type, by any means.

    I might still have a copy of the Spink Scotland/Ireland book at home. Need to dust that off, if it's still there...
     
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  7. Ryro

    Ryro Trying to remove supporter status

    I've got no idea on pricing but know a cool coin when I see one. And that my friend is one cool coin. I really like the "thistle chop mark"! I wonder where it came from (other than Scotland, haha) and what it represents. To bad Welsh coins aren't this cool... Now I want one. #coinstalk
     
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  8. TheRed

    TheRed Well-Known Member

    Great coin, I've always liked the Scottish Royal and its fractions. While I'm not an expert on these coins, I see nothing that makes me worried about it.

    The counter-stamp comes from 1578, when the coins of the realm were revalued. Silver had climbed in value to the point where the metal content of the coins was higher than the face value. Naturally silver coinage began to disappear as it was hoarded or melted down so the Royal Mint called in coins to be revalued, indicated by the counter-stamp, and released back into circulation.
     
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  9. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan Eclectic & Eccentric Moderator

    Rats- my Spink Scotland/Ireland book is MIA.

    Thanks for the input so far. I think I'll put in another, stronger bid, though at this stage I'm still flying blind and have no clue where the bidding on this thing will end. I started at $125-ish, though I knew that was low- probably way low. I was on top with that bid until yesterday.

    I have the feeling this one should go for more than double (triple?) that amount, but I guess I need to look at closed auctions for some indication of how much more.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2018
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  10. TheRed

    TheRed Well-Known Member

    Best of luck @lordmarcovan it would be a great coin to own.

    I found this 2/3 Ryal from 1566 on the CNG website. It sold for $2450.
    ryal.jpg
     
  11. Oldhoopster

    Oldhoopster Member of the ANA since 1982

    Great looking coin. Not my area of expertise, but I think it looks authentic
     
  12. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan Eclectic & Eccentric Moderator

    Dang, that's gorgeous. And exciting. And discouraging, all at the same time. Tells me I probably haven't got a snowball's chance on this one in the OP.

    But I'll give it my feeble little attempt...

    PS- @TheRed - thank you for digging that up.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2018
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  13. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan Eclectic & Eccentric Moderator

    Hmm.

    I could be out of my league here. I knew this coin was worth a whole lot more than my initial test bid, but didn't realize how many of them cross the four-figure frontier, pricewise (which is well beyond my means).

    This one went for $850 last month. (Also beyond my means.)


    [​IMG]
    Spink - Auction 339, Lot 318
    Scotland. James VI (1567-1625). Revaluation of 1578. 7 Shillings, 4 Pence. 5.89 gms. 1560 Testoon of Francis and Mary (S.5417) c/m'd with crowned thistle on reverse. Arms of Francis and Mary, Scottish crown above, rev. Crowned FM monogram. Good Very Fine. ($500-600)...
    14 Jan 2018 850 USD

    Still gonna give a feeble try at the one in the OP, but frankly, I am not at all optimistic about my chances.
     
  14. Mat

    Mat Ancient Coincoholic

    I like it myself, I say it would be a nice addition to your set, Rob.
     
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  15. Stevearino

    Stevearino Well-Known Member

    Please let us know the results of your quest!
    Steve
     
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  16. ancientcoinguru

    ancientcoinguru Well-Known Member

    WOW, what a nice coin! I hope you win it
     
  17. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan Eclectic & Eccentric Moderator

    To test my competitor's mettle, I just upped my max bid by another 30 bucks or so and am again on top. Looks like he or she had just bumped it up by one increment. I'll be on top for another 25 bucks or so, but fully expect my new (public) max bid to be shot down soon enough.

    That's why I have a much bigger e-snipe primed and loaded to go off in the final seconds. I still may not win it in the end, but it will cost anyone who snatches it from me a lot more than the present bid level. ;)

    The auction ends after midnight Eastern time - on a Wednesday morning - which is kind of an "off" time. That might work to my advantage. We'll see.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2018
  18. HoledandCreative

    HoledandCreative Well-Known Member

    Bid what you feel it is worth to you. It is a nice looking coin. If too much, there might be a holed one out there for you. Holed coins are somewhat popular with a few.
     
  19. PlanoSteve

    PlanoSteve Well-Known Member

    Nice!! Sometimes it's destiny....just remember, if it turns out that you don't win it, somewhere out there is another one! :happy::happy::happy:
     
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  20. asheland

    asheland The Silver Lion

    Not sure of value, but definitely looks authentic and original. AWESOME coin!!!
     
  21. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan Eclectic & Eccentric Moderator

    "Maria" here is none other than the famous Mary, Queen of Scots, who would be beheaded two years after this coin was struck.

    [​IMG]

    And a description borrowed from a 1566 1-ryal coin listed here:

    "The device of the tortoise climbing the palm tree is enigmatic - some speculate that it refers to Darnley's pretensions to the Crown Matrimonial, ie. his slow but sure ascent to the crown. Mary married Henry Stuart, Lord Darnley, her first cousin at Holyrood Palace on 29 July 1565. It was a turbulent marriage. Their son James (VI and I of England) was born on 19 June 1566 but within two years Lord Darnley was to die. These coins were struck for only three years and are interesting in that they have Darnley styled as king on the coin and thus are rare.
    In February 1567, Darnley was recuperating after an illness in a house at Kirk o' Field within the city walls of Edinburgh, when an explosion occurred in the house, and Darnley was found dead in the garden.

    Obv:
    Crowned Royal Arms with thistle either side, MARIA & HENRIC' DEI. GRA. R & R. Crowned thistle punched countermark to left of tree.

    Rev:
    Tortoise climbing up crowned palm tree with scroll legend, DAT GLORIA VIRES (Glory gives strength), around – EXVRGAT DEVS & DISSIPENT INIMICI, (Let God arise and scatter his enemies). Flat area to right caused by punch on this position on reverse
    side."

    Interesting, eh? Makes me want to read that book on the Tudors that @Aethelred gave me recently.​
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2018
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