Diocletian: One of the Earliest Post Reform Coins from Lugdunum

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Curtisimo, Feb 18, 2018.

  1. Curtisimo

    Curtisimo the Great(ish)

    Diocletian_Follis_AD_295.jpg
    Roman Empire
    Diocletian, AD 284-305
    AE Follis, Lugdunum Mint, 1st officina, struck ca. AD 295
    Dia.: 28 mm
    Wt.: 8.5 g
    Obv.: IMP C DIOCLETIANVS P F AVG; Laureate bust right
    Rev.: GENIO POP-VLI ROMANI: Genius standing left holding patera and cornucopia /LA in exergue
    Ref.: RIC VI 2a, Lugdunum Group I, Class II

    Ex Jamesicus Collection

    I was recently very honored to receive the above coin as a gift from @jamesicus and I have been doing the best I can to learn as much as possible about it. As many of you know I have a great interest in the emperor Diocletian and the tetrarchy system that he developed. I recently devoted some time into developing a write up on his reign and coinage that those interested can read here.

    This coin was struck under Constantius Chlorus who had not long before been elevated to the rank of Caesar by Maximian (Diocletian’s counterpart in the west). At the time the mint at Lugdunum was operating with only two officinae (A and B) as both C and D had been moved to Trier. It seems that Constantius Chlorus used the Lugdunum mint as a means to cover his changing monetary needs in different areas of his administration. Not only did he send two officinae to Trier but he also used the Lugdunese mint workers to prepare for his invasion of Britain and then transplanted some of them to kick start production of his London mint. I find it fascinating that that we can trace the movement of mint workers from Lugdunum to London based on the style and chronology of these early folles. Below is a chart that shows the mint marks from Lugdunum that immediately precede Constantius’s invasion of Britain. RIC notes that after this event there seems to be an infusion of fresh workers at Lugdunum for the following “LP” series and that only one officina was left in production there.

    Lug-Issues-1.jpg
    Mint marks of the early folles emissions of Lugdunum.

    The above table gives an overview of the first four mint marks used at Lugdunum for the post reform folles coins. As you can see the LA-B marked folles are the earliest issue that it is possible to obtain as the first post-reform issue is known from only 1 example. Judging from the evidence given in RIC it is appropriate to consider both the Lugdunum "LP" issue as well as the London "LON" issue as successors to these four.

    Lugdunum-City.jpg
    Left – Plan of Ancient Lugdunum. Right – Theatre of Fourviere, Lyon (Lugdunum).

    Please feel free to comment with any additional insight on this issue or to post your Lugdunum, London or tetrarchy folles!
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2018
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  3. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random guy on the internet

    I was probably in Lugdunum as you were researching/writing up your coin!

    The Odeon (concert hall):

    67E4484C-5B3D-4BE8-9356-EB11B1856E29.jpeg

    Frolicking in the theater:

    35D85079-E757-4E86-9F17-590CE14F6B51.jpeg

    Roman-Era church

    B41AB31B-F129-4DDE-87AE-5F81601825C8.jpeg

    My Augustus as that I bought in Trier that just happened to be struck in Lugdunum. The reverse portrays the Altar of Lugdunum.

    E3120637-3732-414F-9D1B-1FBD4275B337.jpeg 3AE8D435-5974-45B3-B69E-58F4764260DD.jpeg
     
  4. zumbly

    zumbly Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana

    No insight to add, but great writeup and nice coin!

    My pre-reform ant, struck at Lugdunum, apparently the same year as your post-reform follis.

    [​IMG]CONSTANTIUS CHLORUS
    AE Antoninianus. 3.73g, 24.8mm. Lugdunum mint, AD 295. RIC 648a; Cohen 302. O: CONSTANTIVS NOB C, radiate and draped right. R: VIRTVS AVGG, Trophy of arms with two captives seated at base; B in exergue.

    Folles, struck some years later.

    [​IMG]
    CONSTANTIUS I CHLORUS
    AE Follis. Lugdunum mint, AD 300-304. RIC 161a. O: CONSTANTIVS NOB CS, laureate and cuirassed bust right. R: GENIO POP-VLI ROMANI, Genius standing left wearing a modius, chalmys over his left shoulder, holding patera in right hand and a cornucopia in his left hand; B in right field, PLG in exergue.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2018
  5. randygeki

    randygeki Coin Collector

  6. Daniel_R6

    Daniel_R6 Well-Known Member

    That's a lovely addition @Curtisimo. Thanks for the write-up - There is certainly a reasonable amount of complexity in this period given the sheer number of mints AND rulers.

    So just to clarify, the coins without a mintmark are considered to be struck at Lugdunum and/or a possible travelling mint rather than at London? Or are there unmarked coins from London too?

    Over the weekend I purchased a post-reform coin of Maximian (Trier) and I look forward to sharing it with the forum once I have it in hand. It's shipping from the UK to Australia so it's likely at least a couple of weeks away still.
     
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  7. maridvnvm

    maridvnvm Well-Known Member

    The OP is a lovely coin. I used to try and focus on these early Lugdunum issues but became distracted and lost focus on them recently. These early ones are hard to get hold of.

    Constantius Chlorus, Follis

    Obv:– CONSTANTIVS NOB CAES, Laureate head right
    Rev:– GENIO POPVLI ROMANI, Genius standing left, modius on head, naked but for chalmys over left shoulder, right holding patera, left cornucopia
    Minted in Lugdunum (//LB). c. A.D. 295
    Reference:– RIC VI Lugdunum 6 (Rated scarce)

    [​IMG]
    Some are very close in style to the unmarked issues
    [​IMG]


    They transitioned to others with PL in exe. before moving on to PLG

    Maximianus Follis
    Obv:– IMP C MAXIMIANVS P F AVG, Laureate, cuirassed bust right
    Rev:– GENIO POPVLI ROMANI, Genius standing left, modius on head, naked but for chlamys over left shoulder, left hand holding cornucopiae and right hand holding patera
    Minted in Lugdunum (B | _ //PL). A.D. 296
    Reference:– RIC VI Lugdunum - (RIC 43 var officina not listed in RIC). Bastien XI 63 ii (2)

    [​IMG]

    Constantius I Chlorus, Follis
    Obv:– CONSTANTIVS NOB CAES, Laureate bust right
    Rev:– GENIO POPVLI ROMANI, Genius standing left, modius on head, naked but for chalmys over left shoulder, right holding patera, left cornucopia
    Minted in Lugdunum (B in left field, PL in exe). A.D. 298
    References:– RIC VI Lugdunum 53a. Bastien XI 68 legend break iii (9 examples cited)

    [​IMG]
     
  8. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    What a wonderful gift! @jamesicus, clearly your coin went to someone who properly appreciates it :)
     
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  9. Curtisimo

    Curtisimo the Great(ish)

    Good question. The coins described as "Unmarked I" are attributed to the Lugdunum mint workers either at the Lugdunum mint or in a travelling mint with the army.

    The coins described in RIC as "Unmarked II" and "Unmarked III" are assigned to the London mint and come immediately after the coins marked "LON". I believe the distinction is made based on style, weight and legends.
     
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  10. jamesicus

    jamesicus Well-Known Member

    I hope you find my web page helpful in understanding this.
     
  11. maridvnvm

    maridvnvm Well-Known Member

    Here are some of my Unmarked I examples....

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    I have had several unmarked London coins to compare but will pick a couple to illustrate the distinctive change in style

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    I was fascinated (almost obsessed) by all these at one point. I bought any I could afford for a while.

    Martin
     
  12. ancient coin hunter

    ancient coin hunter 3rd Century Usurper

    Here is a Maximianus Herculis:

    maximian1.jpg

    maximian2.jpg
     
  13. jamesicus

    jamesicus Well-Known Member

    Probably this extract from that web page will serve better:

    ..................

    After his restoration of seccessionist Britain to the Empire, Constantius re-opened the London Mint of Carausius/Allectus with just one officina that continued to operate, somewhat sporadically, until its closure in 325. It seems very likely that initially the work force consisted of British die engravers and other workers, formerly employed by the Carausius/Allectus Mints, now supervised and mixed in with Lugdunese mint workers who accompanied the Constantius invasion force.

    This London Mint continued to produce exclusively reformed folles, first under Constantius and then under Constantine, until its closure in AD 325.

    Initial re-opened London Mint coinage

    The coin obverses and reverses of the initial production coin series replicate those of the Constantius Invasion coinage except there is now a LON mint mark in the exergue.

    RIC Volume VI, Londinium, No. 1a, Diocletian, Augustus of the East
    CT (Cloke & Toone), No. 1.01.001, c. AD 296, Rarity: R

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    IMP C DIOCLETIANVS PF AVG .................... GENIO POPV -- LI ROMANI
    LON in reverse exergue

    Laureate, truncated, bare neck bust.
    Laurel wreath long ribbon tie laying on the neck.
    LON mint mark in the reverse exergue.
    All LON mint mark coins are designated Rare by CT.
    As depicted in RIC Volume VI, Plate 1.
    9.8 gm.

    RIC Volume VI, Londinium, No. 1b, Maximian Herculius, Augustus of the West
    CT (Cloke & Toone), No. 1.01.002, c. AD 296, Rarity: R

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    IMP C MAXIMIANVS PF AVG .................... GENIO POPVLI ROMANI
    LON in reverse exergue

    Laureate, truncated, bare neck bust.
    Laurel wreath long ribbon tie laying on the neck.
    LON mint mark in the reverse exergue.
    Subsequent coinage after this series produced at the London Mint was unmarked (i.e. no LON mint mark) until the issue of reduced size/weight folles after the death of Constantius in 306.
    9.6 gm.

    Intermediate series coin (Bastien), not in RIC, Galerius Maximian, Caesar of the East:
    CT (Cloke & Toone), No. 1.02.004 (2), c. AD 296, Rarity: R

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    C VAL MAXIMIANVS NOB C ........................... GENIO POPV -- LI ROMANI

    Laureate with truncated bare neck bust.
    London style lettering
    These intermediate style folles were issued immediately following the LON marked coins.
    Some had laureate bare neck truncated busts, others had laureate cuirassed busts, some with elaborate consular features.
    All had the laurel wreath long ribbon tie laying on the neck.
    All had London style inscriptional lettering and did not bear the LON mint mark.
    10.1 gm.

    Subsequent London Mint coinage

    The coin obverses generally follow an almost standard pattern - right facing laureate, cuirassed busts with short wreath ribbon ties secured behind the neck. The reverses mostly depict what is by now the standard representation of the Genius of the Roman People standing, facing left, head surmounted by a modius, naked except for a chlamys over the left shoulder, holding a patera in the right hand and cradling a cornucopia in the left arm. Both the obverse and reverse inscriptional lettering is somewhat thick and compact with the legends reading clockwise around the periphery of the coin. The reverse legend is almost always GENIO POPVLI ROMANI. There is no mint mark in the exergue.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2018
  14. Curtisimo

    Curtisimo the Great(ish)

    I really like the recent updates to your site James. Also, thanks again for your help in learning about these types :)

    If you ever need any custom maps / graphics or any other illustration help for your site I'd be happy to oblidge. It's the least I could do!
     
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  15. jamesicus

    jamesicus Well-Known Member

    Thank you @Curtisimo. It is a pleasure for me. I will soon take you up on your kind offer.
     
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  16. jamesicus

    jamesicus Well-Known Member

    Yes it did @TIF. It is important to me that duplicate coins in my collection that I consider to have significant historical import end up with enthusiasts who will not only appreciate them as desirable numismatic examples, but who will also use them in serious research projects. IMO @Curtisimo fits those criteria very well.
     
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  17. Roma

    Roma Active Member

    This is a quite common but good looking specimens of Maximianus from Lugdunum.

    Obverse: IMP MAXIMIANVS AVG, radiated and cuirasses bust right.

    Reverse: PAX AVGG, Pax standing left with a small victory and a traverse scepter, P in exergue
    98901F52-73FD-4389-B225-630C9F122A73.png 6CF8F451-18D7-4022-AD24-4A42DA34ED9F.png
     
  18. Daniel_R6

    Daniel_R6 Well-Known Member

    Thanks @Curtisimo. Appreciate the explanation. It's a fascinating period. And thanks for sharing your examples @maridvnvm. Greatly helps to put it all into context.

    That's a terrific resource you've created @jamesicus. Thank you. Look forward to reading through it all.
     
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  19. LaCointessa

    LaCointessa Well-Known Member

    Hi @jamesicus - I realize I am WAAAAYYYY late to the party, but is there an updated link so I can read what you wrote on this topic? Thanks in advance.

    NOTE: I saw the extract you posted for us. Thanks! So no need to reply
     
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