Grading question

I would like to know if a coin that is graded MS-68 is taken from a holder. Then is gently rubbed or slid on a surface causing the slightest wear on the highest point(s) of the coin. This coin now is no longer MS from what I have read. The coin now has wear even if so slight on the highest point(s). What would this coin grade now if everything else about the coin remains the same (sharpness, luster, eye appeal ect..). What i'm getting at is does this coin now become AU-58 just because of wear on the highest point(s). If this is the case and I'm not sure it is, I would look to purchase coins graded AU-58 before shelling out more money for one graded MS-65.

 

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I respect GDJMSP's opinion more than most, but in this case I disagree.

High-point rub does not disqualify a coin from MS grade. The grading companies seem agree with my viewpoint, I might add.

I think it comes down to whose grading standards you agree with -- the ANA (like GDJMSP) or the TPGs (like the majority of the market).

Respectfully...Mike

 

Assuming it's rubbed enough to cause a luster break - yes, it's AU58, in spite of it's other merits.

You described "ever so gently rubbing it", which might not be descernible as rubbed at all - so it's still MS in most eyes.

This gets back to the "technical grading vs. market grading" thing. If it breaks the luster, technical grading says it's AU58. But market grading would likely give it a MS grade.

And yes - good AUs are less spendy, because so many "buy the slab". Sure, get a quality eye appeal AU58. Works for me.

 

Color me ignorant, but what's the difference between rub and wear? At least the way I use the terms, they are synonymous...Mike

 

I'm eager to hear more.

 

http://www.cointalk.org/showthread.php?t=10537

 

This is the reason why some of us are very satisfied to collect AU coins. They cost a small fraction of what many MS coins go for, and frequently the AU coin will have an overall appearance that is superior to many MS coins even if the technical grade is lower. It's all a matter of what you are trying to accomplish with your own personal collection.

 

Very interesting.

I always (apparently erroneously) thought of rub as just light wear, not to be confused with "cabinet friction" which you seem to define as "rub".

Just goes to show how different people define different terms differently. :goofer:

 

Thanks for all the comments. The about uncirculated is a great way to own fabulous looking coins at a fraction of the price in some cases. If in fact from what I have read here a MS-68 coin that is removed from a holder and is subjected to some wear on the highest points of the coin it is no longer MS. So I then take it a step further and this coin should now grade AU-58 if all else remains the same. I know that you buy the coin and not the holder, but some of the AU-58 coins out there are dreadful. They have noticeable detracting contract marks. What I am getting at is have you collectors found many AU-58 coins that if not for the slightest of wear on the highest points, it would have been a MS-68 or better coin. That being said, I would think most collectors would rather own the AU-58 over a MS-60,61,62. Am I wrong to think that?

 

Just providing a link to an earlier similar discussion.

Take Care
Ben

 

No I don't think you're wrong, but I think you will find that a significant percentage of MS 62s and 63s in slabs are really just eye-appealing AUs (or impared/probelmatic MS coins).

 

No I don't think you're wrong, but I think you will find that a significant percentage of AU 62s and 63s are really just eye-appealing AUs (or impared/problematic MS coins).

In fact, I posted this exact observation in another thread on another forum just yesterday:

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2038182&page=1#Post2038182

 

So are some MS62s. For that matter, I've seen PR64 Morgans which I think are drop-dead ugly due to nasty toning. Others might love it.

I've got some MS62s which look prooflike, and blow away "higher grade" pieces.

Ya can't generalize like that. The number doesn't rule. That's the whole point of "buy the coin, not the slab". The number doesn't rule.

Each coin is an individual, case-by-case deal. As Cloudsweeper99 said earlier, it's really all about what you're trying to accomplish in your cabinet.

But yes, a really nice AU58 might be had at a better price than an MS61. In fact, it's likely. Judge each one on its merits.

 

Really interesting thread you posted. Actually it made me go review all my IHC - I have several graded AU and MS62's. Out of these coins I think I would pass on two at this point - mainly because the color is more splotchy than I like. And one of these if it would every brown up would have a shot at a higher grade. So it did make me go back and think some more. I know at this point I see more 64's that I want to bid on that 63's. As for this thread I see a lot of XF45's and AU58's that I would rather have than some of the lower MS grades. But all of this comes down to what I like on the coins.