Numismatics; Can You Handle the Truth or Comment...

Greetings and Happy ThanksGiving wishes to all those who observe the holiday, and a hearty "Hello, may the wind be at your back and luck in your pocket" to those who don't. I wanted to broach a topic which has touched each of us at some point in our "Cyber Numismatic Journeys."

Since many aspects of the hobby are subjective in nature the differing opinions you receive on any number of topics will usually vary greatly when based solely on simply a photo or two. Unfortunately, these opinions often hurt our feelings when (let's say) the $5.00 Liberty or $10.00 Indian Gold Piece your grandmother left you is not Extra Fine or even real for that matter. Perhaps called a contemporary counterfeit according to one, (not all) of the more learned members of the coin forum you use. A myriad of emotions rush thru your mind, how could this be? The local coin dealer you regularly use gave it a rough grade of XF and even offered to purchase the coin. Why now are some your cyber friends (let's call them cyberies) saying it's counterfeit? These are members who you've listened to and even altered your collecting habits to emulate. The individuals who know coins better than you and are always right even when you don't agree with them...

Now, all of a sudden you feel empty, cheap, and foolish for even posting the topic, especially with pictures. It seems many of the forum members are now piling on and adding their own "ridiculous follow-up" comments which only add insult to injury... However, a couple of members agree with you that the coin is genuine and post their thoughts and reasons, but they are laughed down and drowned out by the forum mob which as developed and who've followed the counterfeit lead.

Let's look at the situation carefully. How many of these cyberies have you actually met, talked to on the telephone, or much less even corresponded with? I ask, whose word would you rather believe, the local dealer, your friend or some cyber somebodies who you only recognize by their screen names?

You know for a fact the coin has been in your family for generations. As far back as you can remember when visiting your grandparents the coin was always a special, secret treat to see and hold. You'd sit and listen to the stories of yesteryear. Horses, buggies, cowboy badmen, gamblers, six-guns, wooden boardwalks, snow in the tall pines, gold-rushes, dirt roads, and sailing ships are all part of it's rich history to you. The local dealer feels it's real and even offered to purchase it. The date is one of the key dates and in solid extra-fine condition based upon RedBook standards.

Now that you have inherited the coin, your plans are to keep it and pass it along to your children or grandchildren along with the wonderful exciting stories of the past. The coin and those stories will enrich generations yet to be born. This coin is part of, no CRITICAL to those stories yet to be told to your future generations.

Okay, now where do you stand and what do you do???

Personally, I would look elsewhere for numismatic advice and council...
Ben

 

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Interesting topic, to say the least.

As for what to expect when asking "friends" online in forums such as this one, what their opinions, professional or not, are on a coin or subject, you have to accept what you asked for. If someone doesn't really want a different opinion than the one they themselves have fostered over a period of time, then don't ask for one online or anywhere else for that matter. Sometimes we get what we ask for, and it's our own fault.

As for the example coin...if it meant that much to someone, in that it was passed down from a grandparent or someone, and had a special significance, what more can you ask for? That coin, regardless of Red Book designation or opinions by others online or anywhere, is priceless to the owner and could carry a significance no grade or price guide or cyber-numinist can put a price on. We all have coins like this, whether we admit to it or not.

There are more important aspects to the hobby than prices. Collectors collect to collect. Investors gather to profit. There is a distinct line between the two, though I'm sure many will disagree.
Guy~

 

Ben, you always come up with these interesting topics. I would always trust family stories and traditions regarding the coin over opinions from others, particularly when they are cyber opinions from people who never had the coin in hand. I have a group of morgans handed down from my grandfather which he brought back with him from the West when his tour of duty in the US Cavalry was over [some CC's among them]. They were his souvenirs/savings from his military service chasing Geronimo near the Mexican border [he never caught him]. Regardless of what others think about the condition, whether they have been cleaned [they haven't] or anything else about them, I'll always go with what I know to be true rather than the speculations of others, "experts" or not.

Happy Thanksgiving to all.

 

Thanks Cloudy, I noticed a situation on a coin board similar to this a few weeks/months ago and with nothing to do after watching "The District (reruns)" and putting the turkey in the oven came up with a fictional scenario and and relative question for the general membership here.

Take Care
Ben

 

happy thanksgiving..............................EVERYONE!

steve

 

Really good topic. I always wonder how many of these "experts" are 12 year old kids. It happens.....

As I always say in these cases, the "coin" is priceless, no "experts" needed.

 

I think people who submit their coins for the group's opinions have to be prepared for honest, sometimes harsh assessments. I think in most cases it's because the group has high standards. I'm always intrigued when one person thinks something is fake and another thinks it's genuine, but people are usually challenged to backup their assessments. That's often a good way for the group to learn some of the fine points.

However, if your feelings would be hurt by being told that the "uncirculated" coin Grandma gave you is only an XF, it's probably better not to ask.

 

Gobble, gobble, gobble!
Exonumia dealer Paul Cunningham told me last year that an opinion is merely worth what you pay for it.

 

Just the names...

You touch on it - have you ever met these people.

If I post something on this board for comments, I'll get feedback from the likes of people called Clembo, Indianhead, Cloudsweeper, BoneDigger, Phoenix and ShortgapBob!!!!

When I'm replying, is that Shorty, Shortgap, Mr. Short, ????

I think sometimes we feel we are part of a "family" that is very, very cyber and very virtual. Chances are, you wouldn't even want to hang around most of the people who frequent this forum. But cyberspace makes it seem "cozy" and ok.

Go with the comments you receive in person.

 

That's possible, but everything people say here can be checked out through other sources. With time, you learn who is credible and glaring errors are usually pointed out fairly quickly.

 

Do you read only one newspaper article about an event, or only one history book about a subject that interests you, or do you try a number of sources, even those you may be predisposed to disagree with?

Opinions on a coin forum are worth listening to, but only if you can catalog the information, keeping in mind the disembodied nature of the opinion, and verify what you can with other sources.

 

Shall I call you PC? LOL.

Good point actually When one puts up a picture and asks for opinions that person will get opinions often very different from what they might expect.
Coin in hand is ALWAYS better and, yes, you really don't know the person responding. BTW I'm a hell of nice guy actually.

A picture is really only going to tell so much unless it is stunningly obvious. I'll toss in a guess on a "what's the grade thread" but I'm not a professional grader or self slabber. One really does have to see the coin.

I have two local dealers that I trust very much. I would take their opinions over cyberspace anyday. In addition why would a family member take the time to invent a huge story - it's family, people you have known all of your life.

I sign off as clembo because people actually do call me that in person a lot.

 

Great topic Bone! All too often good, honest folks get their feelings hurt when inquiring about inherited items. When the topic is about a recent coin find, I may be a little bit too blunt in my assessment but in the case of an inherited coin, I will try to be more considerate when delivering bad news. We all need to remember that inherited possessions are virtually priceless to the person as these usually come from a deceased parent, grandparent or other close relative. When we trounce upon their' inherited possession(s), we not only belittle it but we also belittle the giver!

I also wonder why that some folks cannot give their own honest opinion and usually follow the crowd or in this case, what you call "The Forum Mob". It is good that we give kudos when someone makes a great find or is sharing a nice piece that they purchased or inherited. However, if we have no real opinion, assessment that we can back up or don't even have a clue as to whether a coin or an error is genuine, then we should not be posting unqualified rhetoric!


Frank

 

Wow, been said before, but I'll say it too, awesome topic Bone. :thumb: A real mind poker. Honestly my thought is people post to get information, and if it's not the information they want to hear, they either will react in a very civil way, or they'll fly off the panhandle and rant and rave about how everyone is wrong, and all. My thought is, why ask a question if you don't want to hear any other answer than the one you are looking for? Clembo's sig comes to mind, a closed mind is no mind at all. And there are a lot of cases that this will happen.

But then there are the cases that some people will ask a question, such as beginners or people that aren't collectors just looking for info, they will ask a question, and sometimes more times than not, they will get jumped for that. I have not honestly personally seen it here, but other places I have. Examples like them asking about cleaning coins, ironing paper money, or just asking a question that might seem "simple" or so to us, but to them it is an honest question. Now I trust a lot of people on here, and there opinions. Everyone on here has atleast a little bit to offer to this forum, some knowledge of a particular area. There is a wide range of knowledge on here, everything from coins from Zimbabwe all the way to civil war tokens, to error coins. Everyone has a little bit to offer. Doesn't matter if you are 8 or 98, regardless of anything, everyone here I would almost bet my collection on has contributed and helped out in some way with this forum. That's why I think a lot of people come to places like this, looking for answers, and about 99.9% of the time they normally will get an answer. Now keep in mind, everyone on here has made mistakes at one time or another, but that's human nature. No one on here will know everything there is to know, I think it is pretty safe to say we are all still learning a lot. Trust me, I sure know I am. And once we learn something knew, I know more than most of us will be more than glad to share that and teach whatever we learned to someone else. This is a real friendly crowd, with a lot of people here to help out. Granted, there will be some people with a broom in an unfriendly place, but I'd like to see a place without atleast one of them.

Sorry again if I sound like I'm rambling once again, but this is what I have to say basically. And to all of you that have questions about something, do not be at all afraid to ask. Remember a phrase that says "Better to ask a question and be a fool for 5 minutes, than to not ask a question and be a fool forever." Thanks for the very interesting topic Bone, and thanks to everyone young and old, who has taught and shared something with someone that they learned. Happy Thanksgiving all. :hug:

Phoenix

 

Amen!!

 

Ben:
Did you write this while you were waiting to put the bird in the oven?
Nice comments.
Hope that you had a good bird-day.

 

Ben:

I think that people should more often consider the impact of their words on another's feelings as much as they consider the impact it makes on their own self-esteem. I try very hard to be as honest as I can, and I make a conscious effort to keep my comments positive and constructive. Sometimes people need to be reminded to play nice and be considerate of each other.

I often take what people say with a grain of salt and always consider the source of the comment. I then use their input to try to formulate the best and most accurate opinion that I can for myself. I treasure many of the posters here and would love to some day meet them in person. (I am at N.O.I.S.E. every month working the table now!)

Happy Thanksgiving to everyone in North America,

 

As for the cyber friend thing.....

On my other regular blog site, hotsauce, there are 3 major shows each year we all get together, Cincinnatti, Dallas and Albequerque. I attend two of them. It's great to put faces to the names, and to party and socialise and compare booths and set-ups. Differance is, everybody is selling their " own secret" product compared to USminted products.

Sauces get trashed, awarded, consumed, reverse engineered, copied, label artwork is a huge opinion thing,............BUT

all in all, friends made online are great to be online. In person? SOme are people you would never socialise with, avoid, dislike, or ...hang out with, attend shows with, become close friends with. Goes both ways.

In my opinion, the internet is a fantastic place as long as you practise common sense rules.

 

Also, BoneDigger, this was a gift long ago, when I found out it was a copy, I did not tell my mother to break her heart, she meant well. I found out here it was a fake, then had it verified at my dealer ( I know nothing about ancients).

 

Frank, et al.,

Just posted a hypothetical scenario based upon a thread which developed (on another coin list I rarely post on, but do lurk alot) in the past few weeks/months. I sent the OP my support and received a frustrating e-mail from the individual in which they explained the details of the coin and it's rich history. Is the story true? Who knows, but I had to assume it was based upon the lengthy correspondence I received.

I was watching a rerun (seldom shown) cop show and as my mind wandered I posted a fictional situation looking for the collective membership views.

Take Care
Ben