Byzantine or Umayyad?

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by 7Calbrey, Jan 31, 2018.

  1. 7Calbrey

    7Calbrey Well-Known Member

    I've seen Arab Byzantine coins but not like this one. It has no Latin letters at all. The name of the Caliph is clear on the obverse. I can read "In the name of Allah, Abdul Malek, the prince of believers". This Calif is known to have issued the first Islamic coin in History. The reverse has 3 steps and it seems to read Damascus (Dimashq) on the right field. The coin weighs 4.30 g. Can I assume that it's an Umayyad coin of the first to have ever been issued.

    AbdClm O 001.jpg AbdCln R 001.jpg
     
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  3. Severus Alexander

    Severus Alexander find me at NumisForums

    It's a fals of the "standing caliph" type, definitely neat! Here's mine, but the Aleppo mint:
    Screen Shot 2018-01-31 at 10.02.04 AM.jpg

    When they say that 'Abd al-Malik issued the first Islamic coins, they're referring to the first dirhems and dinars of the classic, text-only type. Here's an example from the first (obtainable) year, AH 79 (Basra mint):
    Screen Shot 2018-01-31 at 10.04.19 AM.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2018
  4. 7Calbrey

    7Calbrey Well-Known Member

    Thanks SA.. Any approximate value for Aleppo and Damascus ?
     
  5. 7Calbrey

    7Calbrey Well-Known Member

    The fact that my coin reads " Abd al- Malik " could possibly mean anything different?
     
  6. Severus Alexander

    Severus Alexander find me at NumisForums

  7. Pellinore

    Pellinore Well-Known Member

    That’s an excellent article, explaining a major transition in simple terms.
     
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  8. Milesofwho

    Milesofwho Omnivorous collector

    That was a great article! I have always been interested in this type, even though I own only a Arab-Byzantine. What are the sixteen mints that struck the standing caliph coinage?
     
  9. Parthicus

    Parthicus Well-Known Member

    Looking in my old copy of Album, I find listings for Halab (Aleppo), Dimashq (Damascus), Hims (Emisa), Tanukh, Sarmin, Ma'arat Masrin, Amman, Manbij, Ba'albek, Qinnasrin, and Filastin (Palestine). Leaving five mystery mints unaccounted for.
     
  10. Milesofwho

    Milesofwho Omnivorous collector

    Looking through CNG’s archives, Manbij (Hierapolis), Haran (Carrhae), and al-Ruha (Edessa) both appear to be of the standing caliph type. There are two other mints (Ludd (Diosopolis) and Iliya Filastin (Jerusalem)) that have a identifiable standing caliph on the obverse, but a m on the reverse. That checks out as five mints, so the mystery is solved!
     
  11. Milesofwho

    Milesofwho Omnivorous collector

    Oh, I didn’t realize you already posted manbij. So that leaves one. Pseudo-Damascus or uncertain?
     
  12. Milesofwho

    Milesofwho Omnivorous collector

    Also, it would be great to see a map with the mints. Jerusalem is a dead ringer, but Hierapolis not so much.
     
  13. Parthicus

    Parthicus Well-Known Member

    I'm not 100% sure but I think that Filastin is the same as Iliya Filastin, which would leave us with two unaccounted for, if someone (i.e. not me) feels like figuring out the missing mints.

    Guess I should post my own modest example of the type, from the Amman mint:
    Standing Caliph.jpg
     
  14. Severus Alexander

    Severus Alexander find me at NumisForums

    Not that modest... your Caliph has a face!!
     
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  15. Milesofwho

    Milesofwho Omnivorous collector

    8CF3B405-0C85-4DEF-A0E5-7B2568C8B701.png
    Here is a list of apparently 17 mints that issued a standing caliph coinage.
     
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  16. 7Calbrey

    7Calbrey Well-Known Member

    Before Islam, Arabs Attributed to Jerusalem the name of " Ilyaa". In Hebrew Il (Eel) means God. But I think that Ilyaa could refer to the famous prophet Elie or Elijah who is perfectly venerated by Jews, Christians and Moslems alike ( The 3 monotheist religions ).
     
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  17. Black Friar

    Black Friar Well-Known Member

    I believe Ilyaa in this context is generally accepted as Jerusalem based upon research by Tony Goodwin as well as Ingrid and Wolfgang Schulz and others.
    It is AL-WAFA LILAH.

    The coin posted here is an official fals of Damascus. There are also "irregular" issues. It really can get complicated, but the work of the folks above is shedding so much light as well as interest in this area.
     

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