The slabbed ancient coin perception—misconception?

Greetings to my CTAF friends,

I haven't been posting very often during the last few weeks because I've been traveling and visiting relatives in the frozen north. I'm glad to be back for a while. I took my tablet with me so I could at least check out the CTAF during quiet times. I also wanted to be able to show my brother (who is an on-again off-again modern U.S. coin collector. Mercury dimes are his specialty) some of my ancient coins and posters. He looked at my various images of Judaean, Roman, Seleucid, and Indo-Scythian coins etc. His first words were—How do you know they're real? I replied to him that I purchase only from the most reputable dealers who stand behind their artifacts. I could see on his face that he was still unconvinced. I had a couple of slabbed ancients with me and it was not until I handed him one that he started to believe that my coins were real.



I'm not posting this to stir up anything among forum member friends. I just wanted to demonstrate how non-collectors and modern collectors perceive our collections. They think that if it's not in a slab from one of the big three third party grading companies—ANACS, PGCS, or NGC they can't be real.

Have any of you had any frustrating experiences with family or non-collectors?

 

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In a broad sense, I don't understand your brother's question about the authenticity of ancient coins any more than he would understand if I asked "How do you know that your Mercury dimes are real?" I'll wager that no one has ever asked your brother this question, but the same question gets asked about ancient coins almost reflexively. Why?

It's just as easy -- maybe even easier -- to counterfeit a modern stamped coin than it is to counterfeit an ancient coin. Well, maybe not (I'm not a counterfeiter so I've never tried to counterfeit either type of coin), but you get my point.

If slabs and grades make him feel more confident about a coin's authenticity, that's his choice. He assumes that the slab itself has not been counterfeited -- a far easier task to accomplish than counterfeiting the coin itself.

The answer to your brother's question is the standard one: most ancient coins are found in archaeological digs and in hoards uncovered by various means (excavation, metal detecting, etc.) and as such can be confidently validated as authentic. Many have long pedigrees, but even those that don't can be verified by both scientific means as well as expert opinions. Can he say the same about his Mercury dimes?

 

I love to show my coins and tell the tales of the people, places and Gorgons they represent. I work with a large group, so YES, I get this same experience often. It can be frustrating when I have so much pride and enthusiasm in something and the 1st response I get is, "How do you know it's real?"
Fortunately, my dad is the one that got me into this, so on the family front I am not always having to explain. But in regards to the question posed, YES. I feel your pain brother...even if sometimes it's our own brother who is causing it!

 

Good comeback! Thanks!

 

I stopped worrying about whether people believe they're real or not--I don't tell most people about my collection because I got tired of dealing with the question and there was almost never much in the way of follow-up questions anyway. The incredulity is kind of too bad because part of the fun is sharing, but I've got a couple friends I can share with, which is plenty for me.

Beyond that, the incredulity is part of the steep learning curve in ancients that keeps them affordable.

 

Here are a few more.

1. If they're real—wouldn't they be in a museum?
2. It can't be real if you only paid $30 for it.
3. Is it stolen?

@IdesOfMarch01 , @Ryro , and @hoth2 —I appreciate your excellent answers and I totally agree. I haven't shown my collection to many people outside of this forum so I was expecting some questions like these. My young nephew was the only one who was totally and sincerely amazed when I told him that he was holding a two thousand year old coin. His reaction made the whole experience worth it.

After I put my coins away I brought out my grandfather's World War One medals. (My family made me the official curator) I wanted his great grand kids to see and hold them since it's the centennial of WWI. Nobody questioned their authenticity.

 

One I hear from time to time:

"It looks like something I could make in my garage."

 

My girlfriend says my bronzes look like chewed gum.

 

I'm not going to spend $5,000 to slab my entire collection in order to convince someone else that they are real.

Ancient collectors will know they are real, and that's good enough.

 

Ughhh! One of my buddies at work who is a modern American collector says the same "looks like chewed gum" for some of my more difficult to ID coins as well. SMH

 

I always just tell people that how I know is the same way that any grader at a TPG would know: study and experience. For me it isn't too difficult as my closest friends and family know how much time goes into not just my collection but my library as well.

 

I don't get the, "are they real" question. I get the "OMG he's a nerd" look from people.
Honestly though I like to make them feel dumb when they speak of certain historical happenings as if they know what they speak, then I snuff out their little light with actual facts of the time period.
Even though school was many, many years ago I made straight A's in history and spent most of my life studying varius eras of our world and I still learn daily. History and our collecting habits go hand in hand with each other, to me any way.
Some time this year I'm gonna buy some slabbed ancients just so I can bust them out, I want to feel the satisfaction from it.
Great coins D Ray, even in them slabs

 

There are believers and skeptics in every hobby. I just find it interesting. Long ago—before I became a man of the cloth—I used to deal with non-believers (or folks who called me a liar) with a few punches to their gut. I still have a few ragged scars from those days—I'm not proud of any of it and I've pledged my life to doing good to as many people as I can.

I really appreciate all of your comments! I knew this was the right place to present my questions.

 

In regards to those questions I tend to explain the sheer volume of coins that was minted. For example, Henry I of England had around 24,000,000 pennies in his treasures in the 1120s, and the amount of coins in circulation was several times greater.

 

I stopped worrying about others as well. Just about the only ones I share with are on this forum.

 

Out of sheer curiosity, was it actually 24,000,000 pennies, or 100,000 pounds of silver? What is the source? (I’m not questioning the verascity of your statement, I just fine this interesting and want to know more)

 

The doubt about authenticity is probably greater in the US than in Europe. In England, everyone knows they are found in the ground and big hoards make the newspapers. Anyone who collects coins will see many ancients in their local coin shop. Yes, coins can be, and are, faked, but the initial assumption in the US is that they must be rare and therefore belong in museums. The typical US citizen has no idea of the vast amount of ancient coinage which was produced in a region corresponding to 32 modern countries for over 1000 years and the huge numbers still around.

 

I told a history teacher colleague, who is usually very friendly and seemed interested up to that point (and I thought susceptible to the bug), that you can get a LRB for under twenty dollars, and he said, "Hm.. that doesn't seem right," and lost all interest.

 

That makes a lot of sense. There's a thousand-year-old building every three blocks in Europe (that's accurate, right?), cobblestone roads everywhere--history is RIGHT THERE. I live in California, and out here the mission feel ancient and they only go back a couple hundred years.

 

Thanks four asking Fitz. So i was a bit off on the actual details. The figure comes from the book "Coins of the Anarchy" by George C. Boon. He makes the statement that the treasury that Stephen captured at Winchester in 1135 comprised 100,000 pounds worth of exquisitissimi denarii. He doesn't provide any source for that figure, though given some of the annual output figures for the mints of Henry II, it doesn't seem like too much of a stretch.