Got sent proofs

That's a nifty way of putting it I abide by the personal mantra that money is nice, but a clear conscience is priceless.

 

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We are talking about a $1000 mistake. This thread has shown who can not be trusted. Anyone that has been in this hobby for very long, understands the value of trust. Word travels quickly. Once a dealer or collector gets branded as a thief, it never goes away.

 

Whoa.... don't hammer me, I'm not the OP, you folks need to chill.

 

You know, I have been a member of CT for over 10 years. In that time...people have come and gone. I have made new friends...and learned a so many things. In that time...much has changed. But, one thing that seems to always be the same is the appearance tendency to "go over board" of the CT Morality Police.

If this OP chooses to keep the coins, that does not make them a thief. This is not a case where someone distracts a dealer and pockets a $1000 Morgan. There was no willful intent of the buyer here. Now, is it wrong to take advantage of someone elses mistake. I would say yes...but it's not illegal and it's not stealing (which is illegal).

Don't give me that "this thread shows who can't be trusted" line. All this thread shows is that there is more than one way to look at this situation. I'm certain that in all of our lives, we have taken advantage of situations where we might have walked that morality line. That doesn't mean we can't all be trusted.

As far as branding of a dealer or collector...I think it takes more than you might think. I know of a "dealer" here who a few years ago was caught cracking out details slabs and selling the coins as raw problem free coins. Turns out he had done it over and over again. A large group on the forum publicly jumped on him for it (including me)...he got so defensive he tracked down the Yelp page for my personal business and left me a fake bad review in retaliation for saying what he was doing was wrong. Yet today, nobody here remembers that and he is a well regarded dealer on this site. So, I think it takes more than you might think.

 

In all fairness, Richie, the OP said in post #1 "What would you do if you were in my position?"

Doesn't that ask us to speak about what we feel is right or wrong?

I qualified my comments by saying that at times I have been accused of being a bit of a preacher, but I am also conscious of my comments being posted on the internet and have concerns over what people will think, so I am very careful not to post anything that I wouldn't tell my children.

 

You're right...and perhaps I got a little irritated and that showed in my response. I guess for me, there is a line between explaining what I would do and condemning someone.

As I have said, I would send them back because I believe that to be the right thing to do. I would probably ask for some compensation from them because my actual order has been delayed and I have to deal with shipping it back...but even if they said no I would still send it back. I would do it because I believe it to be the right thing to do.

I feel that CT is among the best forums I have ever been a part of. I really enjoy it here...but I feel that whenever "ethics" type posts show up people tend to pile on. Not everybody...but enough to where the thread starts to become hostile to the OP. IMHO, that is not the kind of image we want here...at least I don't think so.

FWIW, I have always thought your comments on such topics were fair and balanced. I really make an effort to be the same way...but I will admit that I can get a little testy and don't always achieve the balance I strive for.

If I'm perfectly honest, what I see in threads like this is sometimes things pile on to where I feel like the OP is being bullied. Perhaps that's the wrong way to feel...but I was picked on as a child so I get a bit defensive about that kind of thing. I remember when I was in the 8th grade I finally got tired of it. I grabbed a broom in the locker-room one day and bashed it across the face of the classmate who had harassed me for a number of years. I had finally had enough. I was suspended for it (he never was for anything)...but you know what, it stopped. Maybe I learned that day sometimes you have to lash out...maybe it was a bad lesson. Maybe that's the source of why I get defensive in these kinds of threads. It just bothers me.

 

While the internet is the only place where people with morals beyond reproach exist and the morality police certainly can and do go overboard, this is not one of those instances.

Keeping something of value you didn’t pay for that you know was a huge blunder is not moral period. If this story is true we aren’t talking about 20 cent trinkets from China that cost more to ship back than they do to manufacture.

This really is cut forward straight and dry, as soon as they provide the label and accept responsibility for everything they should be mailed back immediately

And yes I am well aware of some of the practices that dealers use in the real world. It’s a major reason why I am such an advocate for the TPGs. That said two wrongs don’t make a right.

 

I totally agree with you. Keeping these coins is immoral. But, I don't think it's theft. Describing this as a criminal activity is the internet morality police popping up in my opinion.

I agree with you...this one is pretty cut and dry.

 

In all honesty I’m not sure that it couldn’t potentially be criminal, you’d need to check all the state and local laws as well. Granted they probably won’t sue over such a small amount but the fine print from the initial order will be relevant as well. If the initial fine print says they agree to return mistakenly delivered merchandise that would certainly be a major legal issue

 

I would demand a pre-paid return mailer that they have also covered with insurance and tell them in exchange for the inconvenience, you will keep 3 of them and if they don't stop hassling you you'll contact the authorities.

 

In regards to the "morality police"... anyone that has every knowingly scored a cherrypick may immediately exclude themselves from that group.
*raises hand and walks away*

 

Just 2 more cents on the topic!

The OP knows what is right in the situation or the question would not have been put out for as stated above "morality police" to weigh in with opinions.

If the OP does not know, the thread would have never been created for the world to give their two cents worth of good and bad responses.

As for being a thief or crook, I doubt that is the case in this situation. The OP should be treated fairly by the company making the mistake, and the company should be treated fairly by the OP. Both will then be happy with the final outcome.

 

Return them. Have the vendor ship you your original order with return shipping included for the proofs. Send the proofs back when you get your order.
ITS VERY SIMPLE DO THE RIGHT THING. Otherwise you are just like other people that take and don’t ever give. Don’t be that unethical numismatist that profits off of others misfortunes. Be the helpful caring numismatist that everybody respects and wants to trade and deal with.

THE PROOFS WERE NOT INTENDED FOR YOU, YOUR COINS ARE BULLION.

Do the right thing and be happy with the bullion coins you ordered.

Reed.

BTW Welcome to CT.

 

I would agree with the above and only add that you should return ALL of the coins unless THEY offer one (some) as a reward for your honesty.

 

Not even close. You buy a coin in a 2x2 flip for $10 and it turns out to be a big score is not the same as buying a $10 coin and having them mistakingly bag up a $20 gold piece by accident.
If that’s the same as the OP’s situation I’m flat stoned.

 

Yes correct I would never even ask to keep one, just stupid to ask IMO.

 

I highly doubtful this is real on the first place.

 

Agreed - request a pre-paid return shipping label plus a 'ransom' of an extra coin or two

 

So...what you are suggesting is the seller ship the buyer their 10 bullion coins with a return shipping label? I don't think that's gonna happen. Why would the seller ship the buyer 10 more coins before the original 10 are returned. The seller should ship a return label and package to the buyer and then once the coins are returned send out the properly ordered 10 coins. For the trouble an extra time, some kind of compensation should be given to the buyer...but shipping out the other 10 coins before the proofs are returned is not the way this works.

 

Deep into page 5 discussing a question that should never have been asked in the first place.