there are 3 coins which i am still missing to complete my large cent date collection: the 1793 Libert cap, the 1796 Draped Bust, and the 1799. Concerning the 1796, i have noticed that the Draped Bust type appears to be scarcer than the Liberty cap. I was able to find a nice Liberty Cap S-82, but am unable to find a suitable draped bust. Checking current offerings from various sources this appears to be reflected as well: many more offerings for the Liberty cap than for the draped bust. However, this relative scarcity is not reflected in the price guides. Is this your opinion and experience as well? It looks like if i want one (in at least F12) , i will have to pay some pretty high prices. And i do want one............ Concerning the 1824/2 dime, i notice the oposite. This coin always seems to command premiums vs. the 1820,21, 23, 25, 27 for example. Invariably higher prices than the price guides. But, it is a fairly common coin. I myself have two examples in my collection. Interesting situation again.
Keep in mind that when you're playing with large cents, many collectors of these coins are variety collectors, and the price guides aren't necessarily accurate across all varieties. You might get a copy of Copper Quotes by Robinson (commonly known as CQR) for more in-depth pricing for these issues. Also, don't forget that type collectors put pressure on the liberty cap cents, and there are fewer dates to go after -- thus the higher prices relative to scarcity and with respect to the draped bust coins. Good luck...Mike
As for the 1824/2 dime, I would guess that the prices are due to its being relatively rare in higher grades -- as the prices for the lower grades are pretty close to the common dates -- but candidly I don't follow these coins nearly as closely as the large cents...Mike
I can barely afford to look at F12 coin in those dates, much less purchase one. If I was you I would check with Shawn Yancey - he could probably find you what you what. As far as I am concerned all three of those dates are extremely expensive. When you get one - please post pictures here.
I've been trying to understand the availability of the 96 bust cent for years. This coin is MUCH scarcer that its mintage would make it seem to be and I can't figure out why. In my opinion the 1796 draped bust cent is scarcer the 1793 wreath cent and about the same as the 93 chain. and slightly more common than the 1799 cent which is more common than the 93 cap. If you look at the mintages the 96 draped should be three times as common as the 96 cap. But on the bourse floor, other than in the stock of a major copper dealer, you will be lucky to find even a single 96 draped bust of ANY variety or condition even at a large show. I find typical availability is about one 96 draped bust for every ten 96 caps, and 96 caps aren't really that common. I think there has to be something wrong with the mintage figures. Supposedly th Draped bust design went into production in July of 1796 and were struck through the end of the year, and some of them were also struck during the start ups of the Philadelphia mint after the yellow fever shutdowns in 1797 and 1798. Yet there are only two varieties that exist in large enough quantity to be considered common on the Sheldon rarity scale, and they barely make Common. This compares to the 96 caps where only two of the eleven varieties are not common. I think that the 96 caps were struck later than the month of July because most of the first part of 1796 had to have been used in striking the 1795 plain edge cents. (Over 500,000 plain edge 1795 cents were struck but they could not have been struck until after Washington reduced the weight of the cent by Presidential order and that did not happen until late December 1795. There would not have been enough time in 1795 to strike them so they had to have been struck in 1796. 500,000 cents would have taken some time to strike. probably close to the first half of the year. So now there would not have been enough time to strike the 96 caps before the designs changed in July.) This would seem to imply that a some of the 363 thousand draped bust cents were actually 96 caps, and probably some of the 500,000 1795 caps as well. I think some of the 95 caps must have been 96 caps because otherwise you have 500,000 1795 cents being struck by just three varieties, while 363,000 96 draped busts required 27 varieties!
Conder101, Your in depth analysis and explanation confirms my simple assessment of the scarcity of the 1796 draped bust cent. So that is why it is so difficult to find one! In fact, according to the Breen book, only a very few of the varieties are R-3. Most are R-4 and above... It makes me feel sorry i passed on an opportunity years ago to buy one in about Fine at a small antique shop in france for about $150. I thought it was too expensive.....damn. That is probably what i will need to pay for a piece in fair to AG today. A "Liherty" variety in nice clear G to VG condition sold last week in Ebay, but the seller would not ship to Europe. I shall continue my search. regards, Eduard
Hello, thank you for your comments on the 1824/2 dime. Can you please tell me what is the key diagnostic for the JR-2 variety? And one more question please: what is the best current estimate of the total extant population of 1822 dimes? The numbers i have read, if i recall correctly, are 200 to 500. Is there a better estimate than this? Thank you very much, Eduard
I second the motion to contact Shawn Yancey. He is a straight up dealer in my experience, and frankly describes every problem a coin might have. He doesn't give coins away, but his prices are very fair and he can come up with some amazing rarities from time to time. My 1847/7 large cent is probably the most attractive large cent I have ever owned. Mike
Thank you Mike, i have already looked at his website. He sure has some nice coins there. I think i may contact him personally about the coin that i am looking for (but first i have to tell my wife...). Eduard
the jr2 shares the same obverse as jr1. so focus on the reverse. jr1 reverse a - the top 1 in the denomination [10c] is flat and missing a right serif at the base and letters ERI are evenly spaced apart. jr2 reverse b - the top 1 in the denomination [10c] is curved and the base has perfect serifs. also letters ERI touch at the base. 1822 dimes- you are not too far off. i estimate that 200-300 exist [and most other's estimation fall somewhere between 150-600.] 90 percent of those are in low grade poor-abt good or have problems. for reasons unknown to the authors at the time of writing USD 1796-1837, 1822s were very well circulated...i will see if i can find the latest condition census from the JRJ. i have 12 examples of the 1822, 6 of which have problems of varying degrees and the 2 finest are 1 problem free in VF and one with XF details and a chewed up rim. hope this helps most of the figures are derived from; Davis, David J., Logan, Russell J., Lovejoy, Allen F., McCloskey, John W., Subjack, William J., Early United States Dimes 1796-1837 John Reich Collectors Society, Ypsilanti, MI 1984. 1833 JR9
"(but first i have to tell my wife...)." Eduard- Your judgement regarding coins is indisputable. But this idea of telling your wife that you want to buy a 1793 cent seems to be a recipe for trouble. I recommend embezzlement from the family account, selling assets secretly or some other less troublesome manner of getting the money rather than the conversation you are about to have. I am a man who is rarely at a loss for words, but when my wife asks me why I need a $500 cent, I feel like a kid begging for another pack of baseball cards, and my verbal skills approach those of a kindergartner. (One time I was going to a bar to watch a football game so she gave me $2 AND told me to put gas in the car. True story) Good luck with this monumental quest (the conversation, I mean) and then go buy a coin Mike
[QUOTE 1822 dimes- you are not too far off. i estimate that 200-300 exist [and most other's estimation fall somewhere between 150-600.] 90 percent of those are in low grade poor-abt good or have problems. for reasons unknown to the authors at the time of writing USD 1796-1837, 1822s were very well circulated...i will see if i can find the latest condition census from the JRJ. i have 12 examples of the 1822, 6 of which have problems of varying degrees and the 2 finest are 1 problem free in VF and one with XF details and a chewed up rim. End quote) You have 12 1822 dimes!!! That means you have 4-6 % of the existing population in your possesion. And i thought i was doing well with 2 (one in VG from B&M, and one in Fine from Stacks). Congratulations! I guess like you, i felt there was something "mystical" about that date. And it is not only the scarcity of the coin that i am talking about. Please post a picture of your VF and XF pieces if you ever get a chance?
