Three and three for 2018

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by dougsmit, Jan 2, 2018.

  1. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    My first new coin of 2018 is something I always found interesting but turns out to be even more especially considering its less than perfect condition. I like coins with more than one portrait. This has three. I like coins with agonistic urns. This has three. I like coins that make me ask questions and this may make it hard to stop with just three.

    The coin is AE25 from Nicomedia in Bithynia showing Valerian I (left) and Gallienus (right) facing each other and a smaller Valerian II facing right between them. The type is listed in BMC vol.13, page 192 as # 70 but is not illustrated. BMC provides a complete obverse legend as ΑΥΤ ΟΥΑΛΕΡΙΑΝΟC ΓΑΛΛΗΝΟC ΟΥΑΛΕΡΙΑΝΟC of which my coin shows ΑΛΕΡΙΑΝΟC ΓΑΛΛΗΝΟC Ο but I question if there is enough space for all those other letters. I wonder if the BM specimen actually has all the letters to confirm the reading. Sear mentions that several Provincial mints shortened the name Gallienus to Gallenus as this one does. (Why had I not noticed this before? I need to pay more attention.) Under Gallienus is a raised region with some small points around the edge and a voided circle in the center. What is this? Flaw? Countermark?
    pp2565fd3175.jpg

    The reverse shows three agonistic urns as awarded a prizes in contests (often athletic). Is there a code to the number of palms in the urns? What games produced these victories? The city name is off flan at the top. I am confident that this is ΝΙΚΟΜHΔΕΩΝ because the other city, Nicaea, using the three urns type did not use a legend matching the one below. ΤΡΙC ΝΕΩΚΟΡΩΝ refers to the city having the honor of three neocorate temples. Many cities had one temple, two was special, three was the largest number I've seen. Correct? I feel I should be able to find a better explanation of the matter than this short piece:
    https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/1911_Encyclopædia_Britannica/Neocorate

    Where is it?

    This obverse here is used more frequently from Nicomedia with a reverse showing three temples.
    https://www.cngcoins.com/Coin.aspx?CoinID=231393
    The three urns are more frequently seen from the neighboring city Nicaea using an obverse with the three in one straight row.

    https://www.cngcoins.com/Coin.aspx?CoinID=184293
    I see enough similarity in the styles of the coins from both cities to believe both used the same mint. Where were these coins actually made?

    Who has triple portrait or neocourate coins to share?


    I had a lot of questions and good coins should raise questions.
    Who will answer them for me?
     
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  3. David Atherton

    David Atherton Flavian Fanatic

    I'm afraid I have no answers to your questions, but I do have a triple portrait Flavian to share. And not the normal Rome mint version of the type either!

    V1429_no_mm.jpg
    Vespasian
    AR Denarius, 3.19g
    Ephesus mint, 71 AD
    RIC 1426(5A)2 (R3). BMC - . RPC - .
    Obv: IMP CAESAR VESPAS AVG COS III TR P P P; Head of Vespasian, laureate, r.
    Rev: LIBERI IMP AVG VESPAS; Heads of Titus, bare, r., and Domitian, bare, l., confronting; no mint mark
    Ex Harry N. Sneh Collection.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2018
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  4. Quant.Geek

    Quant.Geek Well-Known Member

    Here is another version of the same coin with better legends. This, unfortunately, is not my coin. You can click on the image for a much larger version...


    [​IMG]


    Bithynia, Nicomedia. Valerian I., Gallienus and Valerian I., AD 253 - 260 AE 26 mm. 8.7 gm. c. 256 - 257 Obv: AΥT OΥAΛEΡIANOΣ ΓAΛΛHNOΣ OΥAΛEΡIANOΣ, Busts of Valerian I and Gallienus facing, Bust of Valerian II below. Rev: NIKOMHΔEΩ/N / TΡIΣ NEΩKO/ΡΩN, Three prize cowns. BMC 71; SNG Leypold I 249 (var.)

    ex. Gorny & Mosch Auction 245, Lot 1484;
    ex. Numismatik Lanz Munchen Auction 135, Lot 883
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2018
  5. ominus1

    ominus1 Well-Known Member

    ..very kool Doug..& David..
     
    Mikey Zee likes this.
  6. TJC

    TJC Well-Known Member

    Awesome coin Doug! I can be of no help but like your questions!:) Also, I did not know that places used Gallenus till now.:)
     
  7. Curtisimo

    Curtisimo the Great(ish)

    The circle looks fairly centered on the flan. Could this be evidence of the flan preparation? (similar to the Ptolemiac AEs). I read somewhere that you can get concentric circular grooves that don't strike out of the flan sometimes.

    Coincidentally enough I have been trying to learn more about provincial flan preparation techniques so I can better understand my Nemausus croc.

    I wish I had a three portrait coin but unfortunately... nada. Great coin though Doug. You should keep us all posted as you learn more of the answers to your three + questions.
     
  8. Agricantus

    Agricantus Allium aflatunense

    Doug, please see item 495 here: http://www.akropoliscoins.com/page3d.html

    It’s the same as your coin. I just searched using the Greek spelling. I looked up info about neokorate last year when I purchased a coin from such a city. I remembered that i found more relevant results with Νεωκορων.
     
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  9. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan 48-year collector Moderator

    What a great design.
     
  10. zumbly

    zumbly Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana

    Nice coin to start the year with! I've always liked these agonistic types, but embarrassingly don't have one with even a single urn, let alone three. 2018 goals :writer:.

    Interesting question. I looked it up - I'm not sure if it's the most, but I'm reading that Ephesus was granted a fourth neocorate under Elagabalus. I found a coin on acsearch that would appear to illustrate this a Δ?

    00-aa.jpg
    Elagabalus AE22, Ephesus
    Elagabalus (218-222 AD). Æ22 (5.57 g), Ionia, Ephesus
    Obv. ...M AYP ANTΩNEINOC, Laureate, draped and cuirassed bust right, seen from behind.
    Rev. EΦECIΩN Δ NEΩKOPΩN, Galley right.
    SNG Cop. 445 var. (obv. legend).
    Rare. Very fine.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018
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  11. randygeki

    randygeki Coin Collector

    Neat addition Doug


    [​IMG]
     
  12. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    Great coin but Gallienus looks like Vitellius!
    Thanks. I am embarrassed that I did not check Pete's site. He has some great coins.

    And that most certainly raises the number to four! Thank you.
     
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  13. Mikey Zee

    Mikey Zee Delenda Est Carthago

    Congrats @dougsmit---That's a wonderfully interesting coin and one I would love to have!!
     
  14. Cyrrhus

    Cyrrhus Well-Known Member

    Hello Doug,
    Funny this was my coin I sold..at you know where, indeed I found it also a interesting coin, but sometimes I sell, this coin you had for a steal....
     
  15. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    I agree but I paid too much for another coin in the sale that was a piece of junk so I guess that is how auctions work. The great influx of modern collectors with their expectations of mint state will continue to favor boring coins in high grade over interesting ones in F-VF. I won't be selling it anytime soon.
     
  16. Cyrrhus

    Cyrrhus Well-Known Member

    I picked up a lot of coins this year, two even of Britannicus, smyrna and Pergamun for a bargain price.
    Do not have them yet....
     
  17. ancient coin hunter

    ancient coin hunter 3rd Century Usurper

    Nice coin Doug! Those urns with palms are really cool.
     
  18. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random guy on the internet

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