Surprising VAuction Win

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by gsimonel, Dec 16, 2017.

  1. medoraman

    medoraman Supporter! Supporter

    Actually it spells "phoro", the name of a turko-hepthalie leader.
     
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  3. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    Greek ΦΟΡΟ = tax
     
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  4. tibor

    tibor Supporter! Supporter

    I bid just one time in any online auction.
    I have mixed feelings about "out bid"
    alerts.
     
  5. lrbguy

    lrbguy Well-Known Member

    I'm still bummed that I did NOT get an item in that sale I particularly wanted. I doubled the existing bid to $260 but fell short of the final high bidder by half an advance, so I know that I could have gotten it with a tad more effort. Tried to do a final seconds auto advance to 275 but ran out of time. It was not to be.

    Makes me kinda wish I had had the problem you guys are discussing.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2017
  6. Severus Alexander

    Severus Alexander find me at NumisForums

    http://grifterrec.rasmir.com/huns/huns7.html

    I'd like to learn more about these too, they are still very mysterious to me. I have a couple of Turko-Hunnic countermarked coins and would like to get more.

    Seller described as "Northern Tocharistan c. 500", a lot of countermarks!:
    Screen Shot 2017-12-16 at 2.07.23 PM.jpg

    And here's a dirham of Ziyad (Album-5) with a couple:
    Screen Shot 2017-12-16 at 2.03.58 PM.jpg
     
  7. gsimonel

    gsimonel Well-Known Member

    Wow. That's great to know. I may be drawing on your expertise a lot in the coming weeks. Thanks for offering to help a Hunnic newby.
     
  8. Ed Snible

    Ed Snible Well-Known Member

    From the prices it seems like these drachms are collected for the countermarks. Often an example that seems ordinary sells for $300 due to a rare countermark. I haven't found a good book in English. A good web site is Zeno.ru. I looked at the examples in the picture and I suspect your Hunnic coins are related to examples cataloged on Zeno as Hormazd IV-imitations, Balkh » with φορο and portrait cm:s . If you start collecting these you will be part of the effort to figure out the still unknown history of Central Asia.

    Allow me to show you an example with similar countermarks I got from the eBay dealer Syosset coins. (This dealer is an expert in this series.)
    hormizd_iv_imit-both.jpg
    hormizd_iv_imit_cm1.jpg hormizd_iv_imit_cm2.jpg
    Tokharistan, uncertain ruler imitating Hormizd IV, after 590 AD, fixed year 11, 32 mm, 3.78 grams
    Obverse: Crowned bust right, within circle, stars and crescents around.
    Reverse: Fire altar, attendants flanking, within circle.
    Countermarks of human head left and "PHRORO" in Baktrian.
    Imitation struck by the Western Turks after conquering Balkh about AD 590. Imitates a Balkh mint year 11 Drachm of Sassanian King Hormizd IV.
    According to Syosset coins, "The minting continued to the middle of the 7th cent. Nearly all of these carry two countermarks, a portrait cm and a Bactrian legend, "Phroro", attributed to Phromo Kesaro. The cm's were applied in the period 650-700 AD. Variously attributed to the Hephthalites / Nezak Huns. See D. Schnädelbach ONS Newsletter 169 (Spring 2001)"

    I am now a member of the ONS but don't have that issue of the newsletter.
     
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  9. Ed Snible

    Ed Snible Well-Known Member

    For this set of countermarks I will refer you to Central Asia » Northern Tokharistan » Kobadien on Zeno.ru. Kobadien (also spelled Kubodien or Qubadiyan) is apparently in Tajikistan near the Uzbekistan border. Examples with these countermarks were very rare until a hoard was found in 2001 and another in 2013. If you follow the link you will see drawings of seven countermarks that often appear together. Three of the countermark types were published by Göbl. For the others the only reference is Zeno.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2017
  10. Severus Alexander

    Severus Alexander find me at NumisForums

    Excellent, thank you!!
     
  11. Pellinore

    Pellinore Well-Known Member

    I was going to add that I once made a mistake at an antiques auction when, bidding for a coin I wanted, I ended up with a (damaged) Chinese lacquer folder of doubtful authenticity. But now I see that this thread evolves into Hunnic data again. Thanks for all the links! Stimulated by this, I just bought a nice little early Hunnic coin.
     
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  12. gsimonel

    gsimonel Well-Known Member

    Can you post a picture some time?
     
  13. Pellinore

    Pellinore Well-Known Member

    I will when I get it, a small bronze. But it's the little brother of this one, a silver drachm of the Kidarites, a 4th century Hunnic people that was fighting the Sasanids in the east. King Buddhamitra, about 380. 28 mm, 3.81 gr.

    5705 Buddhamitra Jacq.jpg
     
  14. gsimonel

    gsimonel Well-Known Member

    Wow. Nice coin!
     
  15. Pellinore

    Pellinore Well-Known Member

    And here is the little brother. Kidarite AE unit, about 350-380 AD. 15 mm, 0.83 gr. Obv. Sasanian style bust in ¾ view right. Crown with vegetal elements and a central globe. On each shoulder a hairball, ribbons on both sides. Rev. Brahmi characters: ‘Ku-ja-na’ (= Kushan). Vondrovec, Coinage of the Iranian Huns and their successors, Nr. GC-K 20, see Vol. I p. 42, Type 1.1.3.2. Zeno 168830.

    5735 Kidar co.jpg
     
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