Some unfinished business regarding the "Villain" medals withdrawn from my November 2017 giveaway

Discussion in 'World Coins' started by lordmarcovan, Dec 13, 2017.

  1. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan 48-year collector Moderator

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    There. Adolf and Uncle Joe learn synchronized swimming, and join Luca Brasi in Davy Jones' locker.

    And good riddance to them.

    Adolf and Joe "sleep with the fishes" now.

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    Last edited: Dec 13, 2017
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  3. chrisild

    chrisild Coin Collector

    Having to look at the first photo was bad enough. But the fourth one - yikes, now I feel like ... :vomit:

    Christian
     
  4. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan 48-year collector Moderator

    Oh- if someone would please be so kind as to ask @Paddy54 to take me off his Ignore list long enough to see this, he is welcome to then re-ignore me afterwards.

    But the promise has been kept, albeit belatedly and after a rather bad misunderstanding for which I accept the blame.

    Hopefully that will put this whole sordid business to rest.

    It does as far as I am concerned.
     
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  5. asheland

    asheland The Silver Lion

    What happened here? Were those silver?
     
  6. asheland

    asheland The Silver Lion

    Never mind Lord M, I just read the other thread. I hadn't seen it until today.
     
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  7. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan 48-year collector Moderator

    They might've been silver, or merely silver plated. I have seen them described both ways online.

    In case anyone else is curious, I suppose some explanation is in order.

    Without going back over the whole November giveaway thread (which I edited after removing the medals anyway) and basing these bullet points solely upon my own recollections of the matter, here's a summary:

    • I didn't feel totally comfortable selling these, because of the potentially controversial subject matter. These are not historical period pieces. They were made in the late 20th century. I think they might have even been made in America, though different sources I read also say Italy or even Germany (but I strongly doubt that last.)
    • So I decided to give them away instead. Which in retrospect was not a terribly great idea, either.
    • @Paddy54 found them distasteful and objectionable, for personal and family reasons he explained to me in a PM and on the giveaway thread. He said if I needed stuff for a giveaway, he'd be happy to contribute something. He made the point that these were manufactured for crass commercial purposes, and in an indirect way they actually glorify these two historical evildoers. I didn't disagree with that, though my distaste for them was not as visceral as his.
    • I told @Paddy54 that if he would put up a giveaway prize of equal value, I would withdraw the "Villain" medals from the giveaway and also put up an alternate prize myself, in addition to the prizes donated by him and @coin_nut.
    • He put up a very nice prize of much greater value than the medals, more than fulfilling his obligation. I also put up an alternate coin prize worth 3-4 times what the pair of medals had been. (@coin_nut had also put up a prize.)
    • I offered to throw the medals off the Gascoigne Bluff Pier here, to effectively destroy them and remove them from the market. They thus became @Paddy54's property once he put up a replacement prize in the giveaway.
    • However, it was my understanding that he did not want actual physical possession of them- merely their removal from society.
    • Somewhere in here I got the idea that he didn't want me to make a spectacle of destroying them, either, so (as I recall- perhaps erroneously) this took my offer to toss the medals into the Frederica River off the table as well.
    • It is here that I fumbled and obviously misunderstood the importance of this detail, since the destruction of the medals had apparently also been a condition of @Paddy54's donation to the giveaway. (Though I had already volunteered to throw them into the river on my own initiative.)
    • This left the medals semi-forgotten, as all mention of them was removed from the giveaway, which proceeded with the other prizes put up by me, @coin_nut, and @Paddy54. It left the medals in limbo. (Or so I thought, when I thought about them at all, which wasn't much.)
    • When I came up to North Carolina to visit Michael (@Aethelred) and you, @asheland, I brought the medals with me and put them in with a batch of coins I was bringing into Michael's shop. (I had originally received them from him in a bulk lot under similar circumstances.) I told Michael they had been nothing but trouble and I wanted to be rid of them, so I returned them to him. This put me in violation of the earlier "destruction" promise I'd made to @Paddy54, though with the other distractions of the trip and visit, that wasn't on my mind at the time. I thought I had done my part by taking them out of the giveaway, and that @Paddy54 didn't care one way or another what happened to them after that as long as I didn't sell them or give them away (obviously now I realize this was where I screwed up).
    • After returning from the NC trip, I offhandedly mentioned what I had done with the medals to @Paddy54 in an unrelated PM, completely oblivious to the fact that I was angering him considerably by so doing, and how from his viewpoint I had violated my part of the agreement. (Which I had, but merely by error and not out of any idea of profiting from the damn things. If I was selling them on the sly, I certainly wouldn't have said anything to him about it, now, would I? Nor would I have replaced them in the giveaway with a much more valuable prize of my own. Maybe @Paddy54 thought I was taunting him by bringing them up again. I don't know, because communication broke down after that.)
    • The first hint of major trouble came when I sent out a group PM to all the donors and winners of the giveaway, to coordinate the shipping and so on. But the system would not let me include @Paddy54 on this message.
    • It took me a moment to realize that he had blocked me.
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    • So I tried to have @Aethelred contact him and get his address, so we could ship the stupid medals to him and close the book on the whole sorry mess. By now I was getting rather annoyed myself.
    • But he had blocked Aethelred, too. So after a few more attempts to reestablish communication and to apologize (admittedly not very well, since I too was getting increasingly angry over the whole debacle by this point), I finally asked @Aethelred to just ship the medals to me and I would take care of the matter by doing what I should have done in the first place.
    • So Michael shipped the medals back here to me (again), and the rest of the story can be seen in the photos above. By the time Adolf and Joe hit the drink this morning, I was no longer doing it for @Paddy54, who may never speak to me again. I was doing it for ME. Those things were cursed. And they are where they belong now, in the mud at the bottom of the murky Frederica River. Good riddance to them, I say, and to the memory of the evil men they portrayed.
    Sometimes it's true what they say about the road to Hell being paved with good intentions, but in this case, there was also a healthy dose of human error and stupidly clumsy mishandling by me, as well. (And that's not the only screwup I made with the November giveaway, either- I've made another embarrassing blunder- but the other one has nothing to do with the medals or @Paddy54 and I'm working privately behind the scenes to fix that one now. Happily, the other two parties there have been understanding, and are still talking to me.)

    *whew*

    So that's my side of the whole soap opera. Needless to say, I am sorry for my mishandling of the affair and accept full responsibility. Whether @Paddy54 ever forgives or not is entirely up to him. I wash my hands of the matter (or will, once I fix my other unrelated screwup which I won't go into at this time- y'all have probably heard enough.)
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2017
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  8. BlackBeard_Thatch

    BlackBeard_Thatch Captain of the Queen Anne's Revenge

    should of shot them THEN thrown them in.
     
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  9. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan 48-year collector Moderator

    True, but I don't own a gun, and maybe it's a good thing I don't, because of my semi-scary encounter with an aggressive and dangerous road-rager on my way home.

    I did think about giving 'em a good bash with a hammer before dropping 'em in the drink, but in the frigid wind on the river this morning, I was busy enough trying not to deposit my cellphone or myself in the water!
     
  10. Youngcoin

    Youngcoin Everything Collector

    Well you did fulfill your initial statement and sounds like there was a major loss of communication a long the line, I hope all can be forgiven and go back to normal. I believe your intentions were pure and not to profit off of them, I hope others can see that too.

    Thanks,
    Jacob
     
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  11. Numismat

    Numismat World coin enthusiast

    Aww, I would have loved to take those medals in. Would be fun putting lipstick on them and making them kiss each other considering both of those guys wiped out my relatives from past generations.
    As far as everything else... seems a bit overly dramatic, but then again I haven't felt my own heart beat in years :)
     
  12. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan 48-year collector Moderator

    "Overly dramatic?" You bet. It would have been far better to dispose of the things quietly, before it all went bad.

    But by the time it had gone bad, and dragged on (entirely due to my own incompetence), a little ritual seemed necessary appropriate.

    It was cathartic for me, anyway.
     
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  13. Numismat

    Numismat World coin enthusiast

    I didn't mean what you did when I said "overly dramatic". You went above and beyond to correct a situation that seems like it was an over-reaction from everything I'm reading.
    Going forward can we all agree to just talk to one another? Blocking people is counterintuitive to the whole point of the forum, a.k.a. sharing priceless knowledge and insight.
    Block trolls and crazy people; talk it out with people that just have different points of view on some things. Might expand your horizons in the process :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2017
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  14. Paddy54

    Paddy54 Well-Known Member

    Message recieved.....
    Actually you were never blocked or placed on ignore. Just removed from being followed , my account is set up if you aren't followed by me you may not pm me.
    All of your post in open forum were read,including this one.

    Rob
    If you reread my first pm to you ...you will realize that my intention wasn't anything more then to voice" privately" my distaste in the 2 prizes.
    I also" commended you " for your work in numismatics,especially with yn's.
    I never intended to get" involved " in any. Contest,give away,or drama !
    Since this is now" finished completely" there's no need to continue any more drama!
    Both parties have" kept their word" to complete their agreements to each other.
    As for others opions here there's no need to add or subtract any more to this thread. The subject matter is closed! And truly no one elses business.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2017
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  15. Curtisimo

    Curtisimo the Great(ish)

    For what it's worth anyone with even a passing knowledge of this forum is aware of your kind and generous nature. Sounds like your generosity has caused you more hassle than it should have recently.

    Just remember that it's more common to get feedback when it's of the negative variety. However, on behalf of those of us watching from the sideline we thank you for all that you do and have done to help the hobby and make this forum more fun.

    Curtis
     
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  16. hotwheelsearl

    hotwheelsearl Well-Known Member

    I've seen some bad stuff (9/11 medal made from real ground zero steel!) but never heard of someone getting crazy offended about them.
     
  17. chrisild

    chrisild Coin Collector

    Those Italian medals are silver-plated zinc pieces. Fairly modern actually (certainly not from the 40s/50s), but obviously there is a market for them ...

    Christian
     
  18. Nathan401

    Nathan401 Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

    Unfortunately, that's true, I would think buyers of this kind of crap are either very confused, ignorant, or both. My family (Jewish) came here from Russia early in the 20th century, and I wasn't sad to see those go into the drink.
     
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  19. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan 48-year collector Moderator

    Ah, excellent. I am very happy to hear this. Thank you.

    This matter is now concluded, I'm happy to say. :)

    Umm... well... :sorry:

    ... except, that is, for the extremely embarrassing fact that I've also misplaced the coin which @coin_nut donated in the same giveaway, which was won by @Alok Verma. As if I hadn't already screwed the November giveaway up enough already! Wow. But both of them have been made aware of the issue and have been very understanding, and I'm working on finding that coin and getting it shipped to where it needs to go ... or I'll make it good- with interest.

    Note to self: put everything for the December giveaway in its proper place, and leave it there until the end of the month! Sheesh! :nailbiting:
     
  20. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan 48-year collector Moderator

    Side note: those first three moving images in the OP were the very first animated GIFs I've ever made! It's true that the first GIF/fourth picture (my POV of walking down the pier) is rather wobbly and seasick-inducing (but at least with the GIF you didn't have to listen to my fat-person mouthbreathing and wheezing from the original source video).

    I was tickled to find an app on my phone for making animated GIFs. I've never done it before, and it was easy with that app. (The last GIF in the OP sequence is someone else's, with a clip from The Godfather movie, as some of you movie trivia buffs might've recognized from the "Luca Brasi" reference.)
     
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  21. asheland

    asheland The Silver Lion

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