Which Auction site would you rank #1 for Ancients?

There are undoubtedly (still) some good ancients on eBay, but wading thought it requires a lot of time and patience. Just too many fakes on Ebay, many (surprisingly
to me) with UK and also Spain-based sellers. I am often surprised that people actually buy and pay high prices for some coins which anybody with any experience in ancients will immediately detect as obvious fakes. It is actually dismaying.

There are many good auction houses. I have been particularly happy with: CNG, Heritage, Spinks, Baldwins, Künker, Gorny & Mosch (in the past) Peus, and Leu to name that last few I have bought from and been satisfied with.
Yes you pay the fees, but Big Advantage: what you buy from them is usually at least authentic (in the overwhelming number of cases), and If not, you can always return the coins usually without problems. Just have to be careful with tooling and smoothing which some may carelessly overlook (or not mention).

By far the best venue for me over the years is to buy from other collectors. People I know and thrust and who reach a certain point in their collecting careers where they start dispersing their collections. Or their interests may have changed.
We reach a fair deal: by selling direct they avoid the trouble of selling at auction, and I save the auction house fees. Win-win.

 

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he's on ebay and I though one that probably was not one I would buy from.

 

Just to see what would happen I made him an offer on a coin at a reasonable price, even showing comps from coinarchives and Vcoins. It was about half of his already "markdown" price. We went back and forth for a bit but in the end he refused to budge. Oh well, there are too many honest people trying to make a living at this to give my money to this guy.

My go to auction sites are CNG and Roma. I'll check ebay but it's tough to find good stuff these days. I prefer going to shows and buying in person. You build great relationships, save the shipping and fees and have a good time while you're at it.

 

I can't pick just one, but I can list a few that are pretty top notch.

CNG in the US. Roma in England. Nomos in Switzerland. CBG in France. Lanz in Germany. Numismatic Naumann in Austria.

Ebay is good for specialists who can sniff out the skunks and avoid the rats. Some of my best coins are ex eBay.

 

Well, auction houses rarely own the coins they put up for sale. So to make a profit they need to collect those fees (ranging from 10-25% depending on who). The value of that of course is the fact that they have indeed offered it for sale in the first place. The difference between auctions and fixed price dealers is that a fixed price dealer had already worked profit into the offering price.

Sixbid would be one, though none will list prices that include fees. As a buyer we have to be aware of the specific auction fees and the currency conversion. Its also important to know if your credit card will charge for a currency conversion, wire transfer fees, etc. Its just part of being a collector in a worldwide market.

 

Just thought I'd mention one auction house that hasn't come up yet: Stephen Album Rare Coins. They do about three auctions a year (besides their usual fixed-price offerings. They don't have much if you specialize in, say, Twelve Caesars material, but if you are into Islamic, Indian (ancient to modern), or Chinese (ancient to modern), you definitely should check them out.

 

Among the various criteria for rating a dealer or auction house, how would the collectors here rate the relative importance of the following criteria:

(a) Guarantee of authenticity

(b) Willingness to accept returns if dissatisfied with coin

(c) Willingness to negotiate prices

(d) Offering coins within the collector's price range

(e) Ease/responsiveness of working and communicating with dealer/auction house

(f) Cost of shipping and insurance fees

(g) Cost of buyer's fees

(h) Good prices/values for coins listed/auctioned

Feel free to add your own more important criteria.

 

I like your list, and modify it a bit as follows:

(a) Offering interesting coins within the collector's price range
(i) The key here is to offer coins in my collecting interest. If I can not afford them it is like going to a museum, which is fun, but not a place to buy.

(b) Expectation of authenticity. A guarantee is nice as a back-up, but often not worth much.

(c) Can I see the coin in hand before buying. I pay a premium at coin shows because I can see the piece first. Really good pictures are a distant second best.

(d) Willingness to accept returns if dissatisfied with coin

(d) Ease/responsiveness of working and communicating with dealer/auction house

(e) Price - delivered price is how I look at a coin purchase. I put the rest of your items in this calculation.
(i) Willingness to negotiate prices
(ii) Cost of shipping and insurance fees
(iii) Cost of buyer's fees
(iiii) Good prices/values for coins listed/auctioned. How does this price compare to others on the internet.

 

I like @Ides List with @rrdenarius ' modifications. However, I would like to interleave my perspective of coin availability from an Historical perspective. Personally, I like to see strong background information and selection of a historical perspective rather than numismatic, grade, etc.

This criteria is for me, and I appreciate others' collecting criteria.

ie: OOPS, EDIT: I believe I should say e.g.:
SAMNIUM:

Samnium Aesernia 263-240 BC AE 20 Vulcan Pilos Tongs Jupiter Biga

CAPUA:

Campania CAPUA AE Semuncia 216-211 BCE Juno Xoanon Hannibal capital Italia SCARCE

 

For auctions specifically, CNG. Professional layout and service, high quality catalogs, trustworthy, great material, easy online interface. The only downside is everyone loves them so the prices are higher.

Dealers is a different matter. I'd have a difficult time picking a favorite dealer. And some that I have great respect for, like HJB (great material and prices, professional services, etc.) I haven't had the opportunity to do much business with because I have a narrow specialization that I don't stray from regularly.

 

Yes, I understand why the fees are there - convenience for the auction house. It’s a business model centred around the seller’s convenience, not the customer’s.
And basic behavioural economics says that this is a poor model - because the customer is lazy and will take his business to the easiest, most convenient venue ... When a disruptor joins the marketplace, offering a better customer experience, then the traditional service providers go out of business. I can think of countless examples where this has happened in other industries - just not the coin business, yet!

I’m not saying auction houses don’t deserve to make money - just that they need a more customer-centric model. I would participate in more auctions if the customer experience was better.

 

LOL, you have described much of my drive in my career.

 

I'm curious -- exactly how would you change the current auction model so that the customer experience was better, while still giving the auction house sufficient profit on their investment?

Also, I'm interested in specifically what makes the "business model centred around the seller's convenience, not the customer's."

It appears that my own experiences with various auction sites seem to be different from yours, although I do think that the rise in buyer's fees from 15% to 20% over the last 10 years is a bit excessive.

 

I think the 20% markup is because the market is so active the larger firms need more personnel to process consignments, and a few professional numismatists with benefits gets pricey. It is such a highly specialized field that not just any salesman will do, especially when your business relies on your reputation so much. I don't think they could keep up with demand otherwise (from what I hear, there are still huge backlogs).

 

I think the biggest change needs to be total clarity around the out-of-pocket price and/or removal of buyer’s fees. The $500 hammer-priced coin becomes a $700 coin with the buyer’s fees and whatever heinous shipping price they charge, plus the customs fees, plus the currency conversion, plus international transaction fees (though I try to minimise this by using a zero-fee card when I can).

Another change should be one-time sign-up for all auction houses. Why do I need to keep giving the same information 50 times for the same purpose each time I sign up to an auction house? Why do I need to have a different login and password for each auction house? Why not - one Face ID login, and access is unlocked for everything. Same as my iPhone X

The current situation may seem straightforward and easy to wear for some customers. But as a relative newcomer to coin auctions, from my perspective, the customer experience compares unfavourably to almost every other industry.

 

When i go to the supermarket, I don't wait while the checkout lady calculates the seller's fee on my groceries, before charging me.

I don't have all the solutions. But I do think the seller's profit should be built into the business model without inconveniencing the customer - same as it is everywhere else. I think the benefits to the seller are obvious: fewer barriers for customers to participate in the marketplace.

 

How would you implement this improvement?

For example, the actual buyer's premium can't be known until the hammer falls, so displaying bid price + premium during a two-minute auction isn't really practical.

Next, shipping and customs fees rely entirely on the customer's country and choice of shipping, so there's no accurate way (that I can think of) to provide this during or even after the hammer falls. Personally, I've never paid customs fees and shipping varies according to the country of auction, so I can't imagine how to calculate and display these items for all the individual bidders on each coin.

As for currency conversion, it fluctuates so rapidly each day that a quote given at hammer time may be off by 1% - 4% by the time the transaction is finalized via credit card, bank transfer, or check clearance.

While in principle I understand how convenient it would be for the buyer to know all this items during or immediately after the auction, I don't see any practical way to calculate and display all these additional costs accurately.

 

You have reasonable complaints but it is tough to compare to other industries because of the nature of the material.

 

I consider it a fact that being a seller of ancient coins is relatively easy compared to being a buyer of ancient coins at a price that will allow you to sell them. Neither seller nor buyer is happy assuming the role of bearing the difference between what the buyer pays and what the seller gets. Buyers feel ripped off when they end up paying $700 on a $500 bid. Sellers feel ripped off when they see their coin hammered at $700 but the check they get is for $500. Happy sellers are more likely to return to sell with more coins to sell. Unhappy buyers may go away but will be replaced by new buyers who don't understand that you should not bid $500 on a coin that is worth $500 to you. The current system does make it easier for a seller to understand why they got the pay-out they got and there is no auction without material to sell. To me, that makes the current system the best answer. If everyone understood and allowed for the system correctly, there would be more coins that did not sell and more unhappy sellers. As a buyer, we can get mad and go away with less impact than if a seller of a million dollar collection decides not to consign.

I do not understand business. On thing I really do not understand is how auction houses can publish those print catalogs which are better references than many $100 books. Surely it is not to encourage me to buy more than I would have from the online catalog. I do have a guess. Perhaps it will cause another owner of a million dollar collection who is not part of the online generation to come forward and consign his coins. Wouldn't it be nice to get to see the catalog of your collection published before your death and know your babies found good homes? It won't help me and other low end gatherers whose holdings are not publication worthy.

The success of large coin auctions depends less on sold coins that go out in today's mail than it does on what comes in to guarantee there will be a sale next year. Coddling potential sellers does seem like a good idea after all.

 

Any interface can be tailored to the customer based on his/her country. The price in your country's currency can be displayed at the current conversion rate - eBay does this. Granted - the conversion rate from bank transfer, cheque, credit card etc is harder to know.

Customs fees can be displayed accurately. I pay customs fees; CNG accurately declare value of the goods on the parcel, and they send via FedEx who make sure these fees get paid.

I think the whole seller/buyer fee model needs a rethink.

I don't know how it is in the rest of the world, but in Australia, the cabbie-saurus died because Uber provided a better, more satisfactory experience.