pcgs jefferson smooth edge pop number is 390499 ms-64 - 1 ms- 65 - 125 ms- 66 - 132 ms - 67 - 42 ms- 68 - 1 ms - 69 - 00 ms - 70 - 00
Not too much word on these SO far only one person has suppposedly found these and I'm yet to see one on ebay besides the discovery coin which was sold by ken potter. Unlike the Washington and Adams smooth edges which were showing up in distinct parts of the country no one really knows yet where these have been found except the discovery coin that was supposedly found in Iowa. The news and talk of these has been very limited. Indeed Jefferson smooth edges have been quite a mystery. I'm a huge fan of the adams double struck and smooth edges. I was once a big fan of the Washington smooth edges, but I'm beginning to doubt that these could see significant price appreciation in the next few years because there are supposedly 150k plus out there. As for the Adams smooth edges I've heard about 5000 being in existence and the Adam's double struck about 30,000 to 40,000. I personally like the double struck the most because I strongly feel that it will be much more difficult in the future for a coin to get through the stamping process twice as opposed to not getting through it all, so i believe that these adam's double struck will be the only president that we will see double sttrucks for and the smooth edges should continue to surface. The Wisconsin leafs have about the same estimated mintage as the Adam's double struck and look at where these are selling for today on ebay and I believe that these double struck are much more fascinating and will be selling on ebay for $200 to $300 for 65's slabbed within 1 or 2 years. IF you look on ebay today you will see that there are just a few Adam's smooth edges being offered and a few double struck, whereas with the washington smooth edges you have an abundance of them. The double struck are so cool because each error has its own distinct error because of the random nature of the stamping. In my opinion, these will rival the 55 double dies and as for the smooth edges as long as they don't continue to show up for each president I think that the Adams smooth edges will be a $2000 coin within 2 years. I wouldl love to get my hands on a slabbed jefferson smooth edge, but so far they are no where to be found.
chrisbauman, something to think about, a double struck edge on a presidential dollar is somewhat easy for someone to manufacture post mint with little to no evidence that it is post mint. This could pose a problem should someone decide to actually make a bunch and flood the market. I'm not saying this scenario will happen, but it could be a head-ache for those with legitimate double struck edges.
True, and from what I understand the 1909-s vdb is quite prevalent when if comes to fraudulent coins. I peronally know someone that bought one and got stuck with a fake. I have spoken to a reknowned error specialist about this possibility and he thought it would actually be quite difficult for someone to fake a double struck without it being pretty noticable, but yes it iis possible just like it is possible with any other type of coin. The US Mint has issued a statement that anyone caught faking a presidential dollar will be referred to the secret service for prosecution under federal laws and I think someone would have to be pretty bold to attempt something like this since the punishment is right up there with counterfieting US currency, so I realize the possiblity exists, but I'm not too concerned.
If someone attempted this endeavor, it wouldn't be a small delicate feat like adding a mintmark, but rather a crude operation that even a monkey could operate requiring a small up front investment. Think about it, all a guy needs is an edge die. Doesn't take the same skill as making a new obverse or reverse die. Heck, the equipment to put the coin to the die isn't that hard to make as long as your not looking for the same volume as the mint does. That's the scenario that worries me. I'm usually against "slabbing" coins, but this is one error that one might not only want to get slabbed, but get it slabbed early so that if this problem does arise, one can at least say that their coin was slabbed prior to the problem surfacing, should they ever try to sell it.
I can not remember who from the forum showed us how to take the edge off a coin. He had pictures showing us, since then IMO I think it can be done to even foll the TPG's
Thanks for the info and it would be much easier to counterfiet a 55 double die or a wiscsonsin leaf than to create a double struck. The curvature of the coin along with the pressure needed to stamp the coin along with the precision needed to get the fonts to line up (along with the exact font) would make any counterfiet nearly impossible to produce unless someone had a capital outlay in the millions- so a monkey could do it is correct if that monkey was worth a million dollars. If everyone started worrying about counterfiet coins then the industry would collapse tomorrow, so although this will always be an issue with any type of valuable coin the industry just has to accept it. Like I said before if someone is bold enough to sell a fake smooth edge on ebay there is a good chance that it wiill end up in a grading services hand and once it is measured, weighed, and scrutinized and found to be a fake it is sent back to the submitter and then the fraud process can begin. The original seller of the coin can then wait for the secret service to come knocking on their door. Thanks for your concern.
It would not take millions to make an edge die, it would only take thousands and a person experienced in the trade. Once the edge die is made, the person running the equipment would not need any experience and minimal training. I don't understand how a counterfeit 55 double die would be easier to make. One would literally have to make a perfect replica of a reverse and obverse die, then start stamping them out (yes copper blank planchets are easy to get for a couple bucks a piece). With the 55 double die, if there were to suddenly appear in the market a few thousand (especially in better grades), people would notice. With the double struck edge Adams, Jefferson, Madison, etc... people are still trying to get a handle on how many exist. If 30,000 were to show up in the market place this year, people would notice, but they wouldn't question the spike in population numbers too much. Even at $100 a pop, that's $3 million dollars. Many organized crime units wouldn't mind a $3 million boost in their income. Not to mention that for every year the edge inscription continues, they can keep using the same equipment to make more.
I believe that this "error" actually may have been a few scoops of a worker tossing them into a finished bin. I never believed the earlier conspiracy theories on what went wrong. I believe they were just typical sloppy work at the Philly Mint, but these very low numbers I think are more cause for some concern and maybe one person is responsible. Then again who knows:secret:
