1862 Belgian 5 centimes with a large cud

Discussion in 'Error Coins' started by Numismat, Dec 4, 2017.

  1. Numismat

    Numismat World coin enthusiast

    Been a while since I picked up an error coin of significance :)

    Belgian_cud_1.jpg Belgian_cud_2.jpg
     
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  3. dchjr

    dchjr Well-Known Member

    Nice!
     
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  4. paddyman98

    paddyman98 I'm a professional expert in specializing! Supporter

    CUDgratulations on that one ;)
     
    Numismat likes this.
  5. Pickin and Grinin

    Pickin and Grinin Well-Known Member

    Yeah, way to catch a break.
     
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  6. usmc60

    usmc60 SEMPER FI

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  7. Numismat

    Numismat World coin enthusiast

    Pretty small coin, 3 grams and 19mm diameter.
     
  8. Numismat

    Numismat World coin enthusiast

    You guys seriously crack me up :)
     
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  9. paddyman98

    paddyman98 I'm a professional expert in specializing! Supporter

    It shouldn't weight any more than it's normal weight. A CUD is not extra metal, it's just that part of the Blank Planchet that was affected by the Die Break (missing piece on the Die)
     
  10. Conder101

    Conder101 Numismatist

    I find it a little questionable. The back side in the area of the "cud" appears damaged not just weak from the lack of striking pressure caused by the cud.
     
  11. Fred Weinberg

    Fred Weinberg Well-Known Member

    The surfaces of the coin are a bit
    'environmentally damaged', but
    the coin is genuine.

    I see what you're talking about, but
    that weak area opposite the cud is
    just part of the surface problems, imo.
     
  12. Numismat

    Numismat World coin enthusiast

    Looks like odd metal flow to me. Either way, where the cud meets the corner of the edge, it's flush even with the rest of the coin, so not something added sitting on top.

    Edit: I should have apologized in the OP for iphone photos, which are not great.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2017
  13. usmc60

    usmc60 SEMPER FI

    You're absolutely correct about the cud not changing the weight of the coin, but I'd still like to know the weight.
    if I'm not mistaken that's part of the examination process to confirm a cud.

    All I'm saying it's a nice CUD I just like to know what it ways. USMC60
     
  14. usmc60

    usmc60 SEMPER FI

    Thank you very much I really appreciate it. It is pretty close to the information I acquired on the coin.
    1862 Belgian 5 centimes
    Weight (gr) 2.95
    Diameter (mm) 19.5
    1862 14.149.000 - - $ 2.43
    Again thank you USMC60
     
  15. Fred Weinberg

    Fred Weinberg Well-Known Member

    I meant to say

    'the CUD is genuine'

    (not 'the coin is genuine')
     
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  16. sky92880

    sky92880 Well-Known Member

    Hoi usmc,

    Is it possibel that on the right side from the lion there is lead solder? ( the coin coult be used as a pendent? ) It is on top of the tekst ( force ) That coult explain the weight difference.

    sky92880
     
  17. usmc60

    usmc60 SEMPER FI

    I by no means am an expert and as far as I know the weight is within the tolerances maybe on the high-end, I'm not sure what the tolerances is for this particular coin.
    But anything is possible. usmc60
     
  18. ToughCOINS

    ToughCOINS Dealer Member Moderator

    I know very little of foreign coins, but the reverse of the coin does not look damaged to me. In fact, it looks much as I would expect for a cud.

    Cuds of appreciable size like the one pictured will often appear damaged on the opposite side because the planchet metal flows along the path of least resistance when struck by the dies. Absent the missing piece of the obverse die, most of the metal that ordinarily would completely fill the letters in the reverse periphery will instead barely dip into those characters in the die, if at all, leaving them poorly defined or even indistinct in the area opposite the cud. The depth of the lost cud determines the extent to which material is diverted from its intended destination on the opposite side. A deep cud will obliterate all detail opposite the cud, and a shallow cud will not.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
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  19. paddyman98

    paddyman98 I'm a professional expert in specializing! Supporter

    No.. Because it is a CUD and nothing else. In my opinion there is no weight difference when a CUD is formed
    If there is a weight difference It's only because all coins have a +/- variance in weight.
     
  20. Fred Weinberg

    Fred Weinberg Well-Known Member

    PM98 is correct, of course.

    A coin with a 'cud' die break weighs
    the same as a normal coin - there is
    no extra metal, it's the same metal
    from the planchet being 'sucked up'
    into the area of the broken die; that's
    why there is weakness on the opposite
    side of the coin - the metal flows into
    the broken die - the path of least resistance.

    Any weight difference is due to planchet
    tolerance difference, or something that
    happend to the coin after it circulated.
     
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  21. Conder101

    Conder101 Numismatist

    Agreed and I know that, but on this coin is is not just a matter of weak or indistinct, there appears to be, for lack of a better word, "smearing" going on with the lettering and the surfaces.
     
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