If You Were The Dealer...

If I were a dealer I would ask $ 55.000 , all of these coins are well known, 16 in total.

BTW same seller as the Hadrian aureus you showed , so I know the inflated asking price including the fresh fantastic plastic.

One of the best , sold at CNG for 30K in 2007, like the big eagle on the meteorite.

 

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What gets me is that if no one was willing to bid more than $42K now why would you think someone would be willing to pay a lot more immediately? At some point in the future, perhaps, but not now.

 

i'm having a heck of a time trying to get a bronze!

 

A counter-question: If you were a collector who had bid $41k and lost the coin to a dealer who immediately reoffered it for $130k or $50k, how likely are you to buy? Pretty obviously the market for the next sale is from people who did not see the coin offered before. Are there collectors who do not follow the auctions and are willing to pay twice as much for a coin 'flipped' on the recommendation of a private treaty dealer? It would seem there are quite a few. If there were not, why would a dealer bother bidding in a sale in which collectors are allowed to participate? It would be interesting how often a coin changed hands since the last time it was owned by a person who wanted the coin for their collection rather than just hoping to make a profit on a quick resale. Dealers make money by buying for less and selling for more. That is good since it makes coins available tat we might not have seen otherwise or been willing to buy as part of a large collection being sold as a unit. How many intermediate, short term owners get to double their money before someone takes a bath?

Statistics I would like to know: How many people contact Clio each week trying to sell him coins they bought with him in mind? How well does this work for them?

 

Lol, it took me about a decade and luck to get my five. Keep looking, they are out there, just not common.

 

Fair point. If I were the underbidder I would have zero interest in buying it from the dealer who outbid me.

 

So the coin is offered on vcoins for $115,000... I know this dealer. His prices are high, but he will accept reasonable offers.

 

Yes -- spoiler alert -- the dealer who bought the coin is listing it for $115,000.

This is really a key observation about auction coins bought by dealers for resale. I asked my own dealer about this once -- why are some coins purchased at one auction and then sell for 20% more at another auction a few months later? Why do some show up in dealers' inventory at double the price?

It turns out that even with the Internet, collectors simply miss the auction or the coin, and there are bargains available if you look hard and are diligent about pursuing them. I think AncientJoe has some stories about coins he's flipped for large profits very shortly after purchasing them. It's just not what economists call an "efficient market" despite the widespread availability of online information on coins.

Personally, I would have listed the coin for $65,000 and hoped for a quick sale, and a 50% profit. I get the impression that the dealer who bought the coin is not really very interested in parting with it. It's a good coin but I think the auction price plus premium represent the current market for this coin in this condition

 

I agree that not all collectors know about or wish to participate in all auctions especially ones that are overseas from where they live due to all import restrictions.

 

It really depends on how quickly I need to flip it. If time was of the essence, I would price the coin closer to $50-60 K and take what profit I can get. If I can afford to own it and enjoy it for some time, I would list it at $85,000, which would make it move slowly as well as give me a LOT of wiggle room.

But $115,000? That's the "I don't want to sell it" price.

 

Nope, that's the "I see you coming" price, rather

Q

 

I agree. Some dealers want prestigious coins in inventory. If he prices this to sell, then je loses the prestige of having this in inventory. If I were a high end dealer, and could afford to carry an eide mar, just think how much prestige that would bring, even if people thought your asking price was ridiculous.

 

I agree with that one. I used to visit a specific coin in the inventory of Ed Waddell at every Baltimore show. I knew I would never buy it (so did he). If he had not owned it I would never have stopped at the table (not my price bracket) but maybe there were others who visited that coin and bought something else. Someone bought it so I can mourn.

 

Interesting... hadn't thought about the angle of a dealer having a high-value coin in his inventory mainly for prestige, but it makes a certain amount of sense.

And now you have everyone wondering about the "...specific coin in the inventory of Ed Waddell..." What coin was it?

 

I searched vcoins for ancient coins offered above $100,000 and found two, including the OP aureus. The other expensive coin is so ugly I'd bet many of you would not buy it from a $10-to-pick box. I find it hard to believe anyone who wants expensive coins would not look into prices of comparable coins and decline to buy an aureus for $70,000 more than it previously cost. Furthermore, when there are five known of an ugly 14 mm (small) Herodian dynasty coin, I can't imagine even the most avid collector pulling the trigger at over $100,000. I wonder if the dealer found it in a large lot offered for a few dollars a coin? It looks like that's where it should be.

 

I wonder if that's a typo Warren; an extra zero? Even at that price very unlikely to sell, considering that this much better example, then only the 4th known, was unsold in Heritage in 2015 on an estimate of $8000-10,000.

 

In an auction the price can only go up. From a dealer the price only gets negotiated down. If he expects to hold it for years he has an interest in pricing high, because the market (or the US dollar) could move a lot. If he prices with a small premium people will still try to haggle down. The list price isn't always a guide the price he expects to sell for. That's why art dealers often don't post prices at all. In NYC it's a legal requirement, so they put up multiples of the real price when forced to.

 

It's clear that the dealer's listing price will be negotiated downward, but if I were a dealer, I wouldn't want to tie up $42K of my coin-inventory-capital for "years" by pricing it too high and hoping the market moves up. Doing that makes him more of a collector/investor than a dealer. A dealer makes money by selling, not by hoarding.

 

What I paid for it would have little impact on the price of the coin for me. What the market valued it would be everything.

 

I agree. The market will determine what the coin will sell for. It really does not matter what your expenses are or your personal hope for a return on investment. If you can't make the profit you hoped for, then you paid too much for the coin.