PCGS vs Coin Doctors Lawsuit

Laura has done a good job being outspoken on the issue and leading a charge with it among some others. I’ve been a big fan of several of her efforts. It’d be a lot better for everyone if more of the top dogs had an interest in self policing the industry like her

 

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When Legend was briefly Legend-Morphy, it was Morphy's location that was literally walking distance from my home, then. I know because I walked it. Now, as of mid-October, it would be a 50-mile walk. Much less fun.

 

Ooh, ooh, hit 'im again! I'm sensing a 10-8 round here. Jus' sayin'.

 

Is it in her best interest to not be outspoken against PCGS? I've seen her champion them but not call them to task when their lawsuit amounted at most a warning shot and at least shameless self promotion of new sniffing technology that could detect the things they admitted they couldn't detect for 10 years. I assume she submits to them...perhaps there's conflict of interest there? Easy to take on coin doctors when it doesn't effect business--taking on PCGS, that would be something else...

 

No they weren't, they don't sell coins. You can keep trying to blame them for actions of dealers and wall street blindly pouring money into something if you want but they're no more responsible for dealer actions than spoons are for making someone fat.

 

If Legend has something to answer for, and I’m not sure they do, it’s helping to perpetuate the myth of PCGS’ superiority. But then again, MOST high end dealers of whatever specialty have the same metaphorical blood on their hands. It’s a mutually beneficial myth perpetuation cycle.

 

If you're the one providing the spoon, and claiming in writing that your spoon will prevent anyone from getting fat, you're culpable. Which is - via analogy - what PCGS was doing to earn the FTC action.

 

People are responsible for their own actions. I’m not going to blame PCGS or NGC or ANACS for the actions of dealers. The FTC action was meaningless, any company will agree to consent decree that’s meaningless with no actual penalty just to make them go away. There’s no reason to waste money fighting something when they have that out especially when there isn’t even a fine. Doesn’t sound like the FTC thought it was very serious at all and just wanted to put on a little show of their own.

 

Ok so there is something to the selective criticism of this particularly outspoken person/company? I see only praise for her/it--sort of like how PCGS is teflon. She really has/had it out for everyone except PCGS and CAC: doctors obvioisly, PNG sucks one minute...she draws attn, now they're actually great, ANA sucks, she'll fix it--oh well she's too busy with her business...they're actually great too, customer's fault for accepting doctored coin because they want what they want and it's either that sometimes or no coin because they don't have $10 million for one...I must've missed some...Something about not thinking NGC should be the official grader of some body... Nothing but love for PCGS though. Nothing about letting that lawsuit come and go and achieve nothing.

What bugs me is all the bluster about doing stuff for the collector. It's for the collectors benefit, I speak, I sue. I don't buy it. It's all self-serving. And that's fine but I don't like being a pawn. Say they hurt your business. Because if you were truly concerned about me you would give PCGS hell for not following through with the lawsuit. You would say something right? If you initially said it looked like a "slam dunk". I could be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time and I'm sure someone will put me on the right path. I'm open to that But fundamentally a dealer must buy cheap and sell high. Where's the collector in that? One gets less than the coin is worth and the other gets it for more than was paid. Cmon? About the collector?

Oh right the crackout thing...she has that in the same sentence as coin doctoring. What's up with that? What is wrong with that? You think it's a better grade than it was given so you resubmit? I don't understand how that is different than sending it to CAC? I really do need someone to clear that up for me. I must be looking at her objection to that with an incomplete view. What am I missing? Are there people really against that? Like ethically or something? What am I missing?

 

Dealers are businesses, if businesses don't make money they can't pay their bills. They aren't a charity service for collectors.

 

Oh and please don't freak about the dealer comment. I know they work hard and deserve the money they make and all that. We need them, etc...I'm saying it's not about altruism, that's all...

 

Holy cow I couldn't even get that little addendum in before a post lol...I was typing that last post before I saw what you wrote baseball...I swear!

Exactly, not a charity...dead on correct...nor is their mission in life to protect me...they make a buck, I get something I want. Fair enough. That's it though.

 

In general there's definitely some truth to that. In the case of Laura though she is a pretty straight shooter and has said a lot of things that have pissed a lot of people off in the past calling it how she sees it. Legends business is and has at the point that she could never say anything and just go about it quietly and never speak up about anything and keep making money. It's extremely unlikely business interests are her primary motivator when a lot of what she's said in the past has actually made it harder for her

 

Looks like most of her targets are other dealers. I'd like to see anything critical of PCGS. That would be enlightening as I've seen a ton on her attacking everyone but. There's a good ten years of stuff out there. Just looks good to be concerned about the customer. She may be, but purely as a means of continuing to thrive. Sure she thinks coins are "cool" and all. It's like most politicians. They say I got your back but we all know the truth. There are some exceptions. Is she one? I'm saying I dont see her critical of PCGS after the lawsuit. Critical of coin doctors and even the customer. But not PCGS who had the power to actually see this through and make a real difference. Smoke an mirrors in my opinion.

 

... and I lost a good friend and customer in my camera shop, who hanged himself in his garage over the losses he took in this debacle.

 

You can go right on ahead trying to blame the grading companies for the actions of shady dealers and Wall Street but your chart even clearly shows it had been going on for years before they existed. You know full well that some dealers were more than happy to be pushing and slinging coins left and right at grossly inflated prices to take advantage of it. You also know full well Wall Street was throwing money at everything under the sun during that period seeing whatever sticks. Ads by PCGS didn't get huge money from Wall Street to come in, PCGS quite frankly wasn't important enough at that time.

You are also completely ignoring the fact that run up started in 1982 which is BEFORE PCGS even existed. By the time PCGS was even formed it had already been going on for years. Saying it couldn't have happened without them is simply not try as it had already been happening. Trying to blame PCGS for a run-up that started YEARS BEFORE they existed is misplacing the blame. The honest dealers got hurt by it, but plenty of shady dealers made a lot of money. It's just easier to blame the grading companies than it is to admit that there was a lot more shady things happening back in the day