If You Were The Dealer...

Suppose you won this coin at auction in January 2017 for $42,000 including all fees:



Here's the coin's description:

Elagabalus. AD 218-222. AV Aureus (20mm, 6.59 g, 6h). Rome mint. Struck AD 220-222. IMP ANTONINVS PIVS AVG, laureate, draped, and cuirassed bust right / C–ONSERVATOR AVG, slow quadriga drawing car carrying conical stone of El-Gabal, with eagle on face; star above. RIC IV 61d; Thirion 243; Calicó 2988a; BMCRE 197 var. (arrangement of rev. legend); Biaggi 1283 var. (same); Mazzini 18 (this coin, illustrated). Near EF. Rare and important type.

From the Continental Collection. Ex Vecchi 4 (5 December 1996), lot 283; Giuseppe Mazzini Collection; Sir John Evans Collection (Rollin & Feuardent, 26 May 1909), lot 225.

If you were the dealer, based solely on your purchase price, what would your asking price be?

Comments welcome!

 

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I would keep it for myself !

Thus I would make a very poor (in every sense of the word) dealer

Q

 

That's why I'm not a dealer. I'd have to keep it. This is a dream coin for me.

 

If I were a dealer I honestly couldn't be a collector because I would want to keep too many coins for myself.

But if I were a dealer I would have to ask for $60,000 to make it worthwhile. Remember, the state will want sales tax and the federal government a cut from any profits as federal income tax, and insurance and storage costs will have to be factored. So $60,000 would at least ensure a $10,000 profit. However, if I lived in a high tax state like California, I'd probably have to add another $5000 to the selling price...which would make it $65,000.

 

If I had it I couldn't sell it. But I'd guess $100k

 

I was the underbidder on that coin and it was just me and him for the last couple bids which indicates that there aren't others above ~40K. But, I suppose they can ask whatever they wish.

 

Only if you can afford to have $42,000 tied up for several years. It's a nice thought but I think it would be a little difficult to sell at $100,000. It will be even more difficult towards the end of next year ( if you have still not been able to move it) if we do see a small market recession as we are probably due to have one.

Which is why you see some of these coins a year or two later back at auction selling for 60 or 70% of what they went for the first time. The dealer or investor who bought them got in way over their heads.

 

I tried to start dealing coins back in the early 90's but ran into the same problem. I came to that realization and gave up the weekend/mail order business

 

I have no idea, it would depend on a lot of factors like capital costs and travel expenses. I could see a 2x markup being reasonable. A quick search and I see these going in that 20k-40k range at auction with the NAC coin up over 100k.

Pricing these types of rare and important coins becomes much tougher. You may be able to get the next one at auction for 40k, but when will that be? If you want to buy one right now, how many are available, I assume one? What's the likely trend in pricing on this coin, up? A could see a dealer offering it at 3x and waiting for the market to come to him. If he sells it, he made a large profit, if he sits on it he has a very nice piece of marketing.

On a side note, all those radial lines extending from the letters to the edge of the coin, are those flow lines created during the striking process as the metal flows inconsistently outwards, or are they die deterioration? I always assumed they were flow lines as I have seem similar marks on old US copper, but flow lines should be unique to each coin. Die deterioration would transfer to all coins struck from those dies, depending of course on the die state. I bring this up because those lines match this coin:



NAC 54 lot 513

Given the integrity of these two auction houses, I presume those are die deterioration, because if they are flow lines then one of these is a copy.

 

The easy answer is that people can ask whatever they want, but they may not get it. In other instances some dealers have collectors with extremely deep pockets who do not price compare or shop around. I've seen it many times. But one reason why I no longer deal in gold is the overall low profits (if at all) and it ties up way too much capital as sells slowly. Last time I bough Roman gold common mint state aureii were about $1,500, Byzantine about $100 (retail).

In California we have an exception. Sales of coins over $2,000 is exempt (though I think that figure changed some time ago, I cant remember. Might be lower now).

 

The flow lines should appear similar, since the metal is flowing around the same features of the die. What would cause a die to deterioriate in a manner consistent with flow lines?

 

Similar, yes. Exactly the same, no. I think that's even more the case with ancients where you have larger variability in the planchet. Flow lines are like finger prints for the coin, each one will be unique.

 

For these two coins the flow lines are very similar but not exact.

 

I say 85,000. It makes it worthwhile to wait on and if no one bites he can lower the price a little. He may be looking to find someone who was not aware of this coin at this time and/or who wanted it but could not swing the deal or was unsure how high to go. Now there is a price, it is possible any non-bidders will think a higher price is worthwhile if someone buys something and is ready to immediately turn it around.

 

Your correct, i went back and looked again, slight differences, like the angle of the lines above the first T on the obverse. Thanks for pointing it out and helping clarify the issue for me.

 

Ignoring the coin, on a $42k price I would say he is asking $100k or $115k. Many dealers I know want to double their money after fees. If he ask that amount, after his fees are deducted and he has room to wriggle he could double his money. He is taking a pretty good risk at that price level.

Given the coin, I would say $115k or $130k. Its a dream coin to those who know the story of the emessa stone. I have 5 different coins depicting the stone, but knew I could never afford an aureus.

 

But the question about which I'm curious is, if YOU were the dealer and paid $42K for this coin, what would be YOUR asking price?

 

How does that song go? "If I were a rich girl, nanananana, I'd have all the money in the world if I were a wealthy girl!"

Well, I'm neither rich nor a girl, so I guess I'll never trully have to wonder about the asking price for this coin. Not unless the dealer is willing to let me take it on a 10 year mortgage secured by the coin itself.

 

Fast nickel or slow dime? It's an old argument between the two. I would go for $50k and a fast sale but only if the buyer paid all relevant fees. That much money is better off in the stock or bond market.

 

If I had no emotional attachment I would list in the 55-65k range. But being sold so recently, I would put in a vault for 5 years and see what the market is doing then.