1878 S Morgan - Partial Collar?

Discussion in 'Error Coins' started by quick_change, Nov 24, 2017.

  1. quick_change

    quick_change Member

    I was going through a few of my coins and thought that the edge of this Morgan was kind of worn, but upon further investigation, I noticed an odd pattern. Checked online and all I could find was a reference to a “Partial Collar.” If it’s a strike error, I believe it came from the obverse side. The rest of the coin is in great condition. I took pictures to the best of my abilities, and was curious if anyone knows about this type of strike or error? Thanks in advance!
     

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  3. TheFinn

    TheFinn Well-Known Member

    Yep, partial collar or railroad rim - called that because the shape looks like the wheels on train engines and cars. Very nice and worth a few pfennigs. Good find. I am envious of you finding one on a nice, big Morgan dollar.
     
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  4. cpm9ball

    cpm9ball CANNOT RE-MEMBER

    The "Flanged Partial Collar Strike" is often called the "Railroad Rim" because the flange is created when the collar is partially raised around the entire perimeter of the coin.

    It's more appropriately called a "Tilted Partial Collar Strike". This probably occurs because a support spring breaks causing the flange to taper across the edge of the coin.

    Source: The Official Price Guide to Mint Errors by Alan Herbert
     
  5. quick_change

    quick_change Member

    Thank you TheFinn! Yeah, I was surprised that I never noticed it before. Just curious, is this a common error seen on Morgan Dollars? Also, with the condition of the coin, and if it hasn't been cleaned, what could this be worth? thanks again!
     
  6. quick_change

    quick_change Member

    Thank you cpm9ball! Is it possible that other Morgan Dollar's have an error like this that covers the whole length around the edges, as opposed to just the "Tilted partial strike?" Thanks again!
     
  7. cpm9ball

    cpm9ball CANNOT RE-MEMBER

    I won't say that it is unlikely, but I sure wouldn't want to browse through the 4,000+ listings of Morgan and Peace dollars on VAMWorld. Perhaps @messydesk would know of others.

    Chris
     
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  8. TheFinn

    TheFinn Well-Known Member

    The railroad rim is not a VAM variety - it is an error like an off-center strike. If you look in the Redbook it lists what different types of errors on each denomination and type. This would give you an approximate value. Fred Weinberg would be able to tell you what these bring.
     
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  9. messydesk

    messydesk Well-Known Member

    A tilted collar is much more common than one that is perfectly straight, simply due to how the coin must land in order for a partial collar to be straight. That said, a tilted partial collar on a Morgan is still quite desirable. As it is a striking error, it does not get listed in the VAM catalog, which catalogs only die variations.
     
  10. quick_change

    quick_change Member

    Yeah, I couldn’t find it in my “Top 100 Morgan Dollar Varieties: The VAM Keys,” book. I also checked the Red Book Mistrikes and Errors section and didn’t have much luck..
     
  11. quick_change

    quick_change Member

    Thank you for that info TheFinn. I checked my Redbook and Mega Red and couldn’t find it there. I may have overlooked it, but I’ll check again.
     
  12. quick_change

    quick_change Member

    Thank you messydesk! That makes sense; I was just curious as to if there were varieties of this type of strike error. On another note, I’ve been trying to save enough money to eventually get this coin graded along with a few other coins I have. Would it be worth getting this coin graded? I’m not interested in making money off of my collection, it is just something I would like to hand down to my son, when he is older. Thank you again for your shared knowledge!
     
  13. messydesk

    messydesk Well-Known Member

    Probably. It looks like the coin would grade MS62PL. Nothing jumps out at me as being wear or problems that would preclude a grade, and the surfaces look reflective. The bigger question is how to get it graded.

    Grading fees and postage could kill you if you send the coin in by itself. PCGS charges $60 for mint errors plus postage and handling. They also don't let you mix mint errors with other coins, so the total would be $93 plus your outbound shipping. NGC charges $35 for economy mint errors ($20 economy submission + $15 for errors). Mint error designation is a per-coin add-on, so you could have other coins submitted at the economy level ($300 value per coin max.) along with this one and ease the pain of return shipping and handling. Even if you only sent this coin, the return S&H is $29, so the total would be $64. Someone will say ANACS is cheaper yet, but you don't get a clear view of the edge of the coin with their holder, which is critical for a tilted partial collar. NGC's holder will give you the best view of the edge, showing you about 85% of a dollar, while PCGS's will show 50%, so this is one of the cases where I would be in favor of sending to NGC (I'm normally a PCGS guy). Most of the partial collar Morgans I looked up on the Heritage archives are graded by NGC.

    As for what else to send in, you'd be best off having someone look at the coins to see what would be worth it. We can start here with pictures and give you yes/no/maybe answers, which could save you a lot of money.
     
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  14. TheFinn

    TheFinn Well-Known Member

    Go to www.anacs.com and see what grading would cost. It is a bit valuable, but if you encapsulate it (slab it), it will be hard to see the edge, which is what the big deal is, more than the grade.
     
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  15. quick_change

    quick_change Member

    Wow! Thank you messydesk! That was some good information you shared, I appreciate the recommendation of grading services to go with. I don't have the ones I plan on submitting together just yet, but, I will soon, once I finish finals. And, I'll post them here to get some feedback. It's been a busy week, and sorry not getting back sooner!
     
  16. quick_change

    quick_change Member

    I'll check it out TheFinn! Thank you for the link!
     
  17. quick_change

    quick_change Member

    Hello messydesk,
    Hope all is well! I had a question in regards to the partial collar Morgan I posted here, a while ago. This is a stretch, but do you think this coin is worth a lot? I might be selling it later, because I was offered a fair sum. But, do you think that it could be worth more than 5k? I know that its ridiculous to assume that, but the partial collars I have seen posted for sale on auction websites of later date Morgans with similar mint errors, at lower grades, go for about what I was offered. I am not a professional coin grader by any means, I would just be disappointed if I found out later it was worth much more, because it is a first year Morgan, at a higher grade. It seems to be harder to find this 'type' of coin, especially since I have been seeing a lot of Morgan Dollar collectors.
    Im just curious, and any help would be greatly appreciated. And I apologize in advance if I am not supposed to seek this type of advice, on this forum.
    Thank you!
    Respectfully,
    quick_change
     
  18. messydesk

    messydesk Well-Known Member

    If you have been offered $5K cash for the coin, take it and laugh all the way to the bank. I'd put it at around $300-400 if it's uncirculated. I sold an AU 78 8TF partial collar a couple years ago for about $300, I think. A couple weeks ago, I bought a broadstruck 21-S Morgan. I paid more than $400, but a broadstruck Morgan is far less common than a partial collar. That is not to say a partial collar on a Morgan is common. It assuredly is not, but next to a strike through or 1921 with minor clip, it's probably the most accessible Morgan striking error.
     
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  19. quick_change

    quick_change Member

    Thank you messydesk!
    I wish I had been offered 5k lol! But, it was far less than that, more about where you put it at. I just assumed it was a rare coin worth about that much.
    I really appreciate you getting back to me so quick! This helped a lot. Thank you and your feedback is greatly appreciated!
    Have a great day!!
     
  20. RoamingJohn

    RoamingJohn New Member

    Is there anybody out there, still, on this thread? I have an 1894-S Morgan, MS63, with a complete partial collar (not tilted, half smooth/half reeded all around). PCGS cert 46762973. Has anyone else seen a coin like this?
     
  21. robbudo

    robbudo Indian Error Collector

    I have a Morgan $ slabbed as 'misaligned die', which is in the same category of partial collar as far as the significance of a mint error. I think i paid 100 for it and would be hard pressed to get more. So, your coin is definitely between 100 and I'd say 250 on a good day. 400 for a broadstruck Morgan sounds like a deal. Anyhow, it might not be worth authenticating the partial collar, because as you'll see, it very well might cost 75 just to do so if you factor in shipping both ways and other such nonsense. Just some thoughts here.
     
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