Demise of numismatics

Yet I have a small part of a Circ strike Franklin collection, all Philly minted in MS64 or MS65 going in PCGS slabs. I am enjoying putting it together not just with the grade but with coins in those grades that appeal to me. If you want to say I can't be a numismatist because of that and because I didn't study coins for decades before buying, so be it. But realize that before I got on CT I had only a few coins, mostly culled from circulation, and I did not CRH either. I had limited opportunities to get in a car and get out to look and talk, and the few times I did, I realized I did not fit in with those old grizzled dealers who did not see me as someone to talk coins to.



I will think of myself as a numismatist, even if not to your specs.

 

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...And anyone born before 1955 is starting to get a little crusty

 

Like the end of the world has been coming for 2000 years

 

A little? You flatter me. But I do know this - the fine people of this Commonwealth do pay me rather well to advise a guy even 13 years older than I am, who has been returned to office more often than any other man, save one, since before Benjamin Franklin's time here.

 

Nothing wrong with any of that, right up to the point it becomes a competition, which is a fairly sick way to handle objets d'art.

 

And yet, those who make their actual full-time living writing for the numismatic field, BOTH IN PRINT AND ONLINE, insist the field IS SHRINKING, and rapidly at that.

Yes, the high end is in good shape, as is the rank beginner segment, but the vast middle is hollowing out and in deep trouble, just like the economic demographics of the nation.

And Doug, I consider CoinTalk to be indicative of absolutely nothing worth counting regarding the hobby's health. It's BELOW ZERO in significance. The newbs here typically haven't even heard of a "Red Book".

Tomorrow morning I'll be in a coin auction room (no remote bidding) with over 100 serious numismatic bidders, some leaving today's festivities early just to get there, and I'll bet my first $100 that fewer than 3 of them have ever HEARD of CoinTalk, and I'll bet the NEXT $100 that I'm the ONLY guy in the room who has heard of coin-related YouTube videos. But about half will be dues-paid ANA members.

Oh, and 96.5% (I just ran the math.) of the coins will be RAW!

 

Can we put this to a vote?

 

I'm probably a schmuck but what does Internet-bound mean? I have only one coin shop within ten miles of me but there are about a dozen within fifty miles and I shop the internet very often for coins that I am looking for. There is also the Long Beach Expo that I attend at least once a year, usually the one in the spring. I find that I am purchasing about ninety percent of my coins from online sellers. I can find what I am interested in usually faster and at less cost. eBay has many a collector selling parts of their collection and I find their prices better than I can get at retail shops.

 

You are an odd case. Not Internet dependent but you for some odd unfathomable reason prefer the Internet. Neither fish nor fowl, nor understandable. What about live in-person public auctions, the way I acquire virtually ALL of my better pieces?

I use a coin shop for supplies, not coins. I seldom use dealers at shows, either, but do for oddball specialty stuff. I am a Cunningham Exonumia "regular".

 

Coin collecting will change as it has, but it will not die out. The adoption of the 11 (or 22) point UNC grading scale under heavy dealer pressure has made grading too opaque for most collectors, which gives dealers too much leverage over them. The scale is essentially irrelevant for coins other than commodity coins like Morgans and St. Gaudens, but we have it none the less.

Early US and colonial copper collecting remains strong and vibrant with lots of interested collectors and lots of interesting research coming out all the time. I don't think the collecting of truly historic coins will disappear. It probably won't even diminish.

I can, however, see the day when it ceases to be all about the number on the little piece of paper in the plastic slab. When all of the bickering over + and star grades of commodity coins gets too old and when registry sets of modern coins wear out their time as more and more people pay to have extremely common coins slabbed in the hopes of that mystical half a point grade on the piece of paper.

Real collector coins will still be around and will still be appreciated.

 

Of course no one knows everything, in this hobby or any other area, but I doubt Eddie was trying to suggest otherwise. His point, I believe, was that any knowledgeable "collector", even if venturing into an unfamiliar field, should be well aware of their own limitations. In this respect, no... "collectors" do not get "ripped off by people", but certainly do get ripped off by themselves.

 

As mentioned by others in this thread, the definition of numismatics has a pretty wide scope; on one end the person who revels in a coins research and history and on the other end one who collects coins for what they are. I guess I fit somewhere in between. As Doug mentioned, the median age of coin talk members is young which tells me that numismatics is alive and well; at least from a social media standpoint. Now if you would base that on the age of the members of the local coin club I belong to then the opposite would be true. At 62 I feel like a youngster; the median age of those attending meetings is over 70. From what I've gathered in this club, the membership is aging with very few new members.

I feel the hobby is going through a transformation. In my opinion, Kurt is part of the old traditional group who favors personal interaction with others in the hobby. There's nothing wrong with this but in today's world the internet is being used as a replacement for personal one on one interactions. Before I retired as a research scientist at the University of Oklahoma, several university, federal and private weather research and operational groups were relocated into a single new building. Prior to that these groups were scattered around town with limited interactions between them. After the move it didn't take long to see how valuable getting all of us under one roof was. The research and operational folks started building valuable personal relationships which greatly helped both sides; something that wouldn't have happened if we all stayed apart.

The internet is a very valuable tool for today's collector. I can use EBay or several online auctions to locate raw and certified coins for my collection. However, it can't replace the one on one interactions.

 

It's already dead.
We are ghosts.
Brick and mortars just keep closing.
Coin shows nothing but dinosaurs sitting around.

 

From your keyboard to God's ears.

 

Or as a completely inadequate substitute for those who don't know better. If numismatics "always had been" the way it "is becoming", I never would have given the hobby a second thought. There's no way at all I'd be in it.

 

Bricks and mortars are closing up all over. And I’m not talking about coin shops. Black Friday, for many, will be a day of ordering online. Retailing is in the throes of a quantum change.

If your definition of the hobby is brick and mortar and coin shows, yeah we’re dead. But it is much more than that.

 

Not only have I NOT joined the online retailing crowd, I actively oppose it by searching out small independent retailers whenever I can. I ALSO slightly dissent to the use of the word "more". It sure is different, but in no way is it "more".

"Different" can also be less, FAAAAR less. And when it comes to numismatics, that's what the Internet is. The only "excuse", to me, is a local lack of options, a condition that does not obtain in my locality. If I wanted to, I could easily get to 16 coin club meetings a month.

Incidentally, if you don't have major national coin shows in your area, it's because you have a lack of one of the following two things: a coin-friendly sales tax law, and active coin clubs with people who volunteer to do stuff.

 

The closest club to me is 60 miles. After that I'd have to go 150+ miles. There are two coin shops in the 150 mile radius. Fortunately, the guy who runs the closest shop is a person of high integrity.

 

AMEN.