Junk box Marsyas

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Parthicus, Nov 19, 2017.

  1. Parthicus

    Parthicus Well-Known Member

    Here's a write-up of another coin from the Baltimore show last weekend:
    Roman Republic Marsyas.jpg
    Roman Republic. AR denarius. Lucius Marcius Censorinus (82 BC). Obverse: Bust of Apollo right. Reverse: The satyr Marsyas standing left, holding wineskin over shoulder, to left inscription [L CENSOR], to right column with statue (Minerva?) on top. RSC Marcia 24, Sydenham 737, Crawford 363/1d.

    This coin was struck by Lucius Marcius Censorinus in 82 BC. Very little information about him is available, though he was part of a distinguished family with several other notable members, including a son of the same name who served under Marc Antony. The coin type is presumably a pun on his gens name (Marcius/Marsyas), although it has also been suggested as a political reference (see the section Political Climate in this Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denarius_of_L._Censorinus ). Here's the story of Marsyas and Apollo, which I wrote for a post some months ago:

    Marsyas was renowned for his abilities as a musician on the aulos (a paired double-reed instrument with a rather mournful sound- check out the videos on Youtube for the keyword "aulos"). Unfortunately, Marsyas forgot the Three Rules for Not Being Horribly Punished by the Gods. Rule 1: Don't challenge a god in a contest. Marsyas challenged the god Apollo to a music contest, with Marsyas on aulos and Apollo on his customary lute. Rule 2: If you do challenge a god in a contest, don't let the judges also be gods. The contest was judged by the Muses. Rule 3: If for some reason you have challenged a god to a contest where the judges are also gods, don't sign off on a vague agreement about the prize that allows the god to do horrible things to you. Marsyas, against all reason, agreed that the winner could do whatever he liked to the loser. The actual contest was close, with Marsyas seeming like he could win, until Apollo (depending on which version of the legend you follow) either turned his lute upside down and continued to play, or started to sing along with his playing. Either way, Marsyas could not follow suit on the aulos, and complained to the Muses, but to no avail. Apollo was declared the winner, and he proceeded to flay Marsyas and hang his skin from a tree, which naturally caused Marsyas to die. Marsyas is sometimes shown in ancient art carrying his own flayed skin (much like the later Christian Saint Bartholomew), or else, as on this coin, carrying a large wineskin over his back.

    This coin was found in the junk box of Harlan J. Berk, and I paid $22 for it. I recognized the reverse type, thanks mainly to remembering the icon photo of Cointalker @Marsyas Mike . This is obviously a heavily worn coin, with several bankers' marks on the obverse, but I think it still has a certain charm. Post your coins showing Marsyas, or junk box coins that you love anyway.
     
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  3. Jwt708

    Jwt708 Well-Known Member

    Not bad at all!
     
  4. Ed Snible

    Ed Snible Well-Known Member

    This coin came from Harlan J Berk's junk box in 2001. At that time the junk box coins were $12.50.

    ohind-both.jpg
    Hindu Shahi Kings, Samanta (Ohind?), circa 850-1000 AD, 3.34g, AR 18mm
    Obv: Horseman riding right holding banner; Bhi ashara above left; Unknown symbol above right; degraded cursive title in front
    Rev: Nandi recumbent left, Tamgha on hindquarters; श्री समानता देवा (Śrī Samānatā Dēvā in Śāradā script) above
    Tye 14, Deyell 45
     
  5. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    The design of this coin is one of favorites, along with the tale of Marsyas

    L Censorinus.jpg
     
  6. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    Ordinary silver with scrapes and polished spot obverse right.
    r15240fd1435.jpg

    Fourree with 18 or 81 in red paint. I would really like to know the story behind the number and the person who painted it.
    r15230bb0316.jpg
     
  7. chrsmat71

    chrsmat71 I LIKE TURTLES!

    I've only been two a handful of coin shows, and only got to really dig in two junk boxes for ancients, even though I have many junk box grade coins.

    I don't love this Gallienus coin, but for 4 bucks, I like it.

    100_7123.JPG
     
  8. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    Marsyas:

    Alexandria Troas Marsyas.jpg
    Alexandria Troas, time of Gallienus, c. AD 253-268
    Autonomous civic issue, Æ23, 5.9g, 6h
    Obv: ALEX TRO CO, turreted and draped bust of Tyche right; to left, vexillum inscribed CO/AV in two lines
    Rev: COL AVG TROA, Marsyas standing right on pedestal, holding wineskin
    Refs: Bellinger A497; SNG Copenhagen 103; SNG von Aulock 1463.
     
  9. randygeki

    randygeki Coin Collector

    Nice! Better than mine 100_5152.JPG
     
  10. Marsyas Mike

    Marsyas Mike Well-Known Member

    Thank you for writing that Marsyas denarius up, Parthicus. I would've gladly paid $22 for that - worn, yes, but good metal, nice tone, and a couple of banker's marks (I like banker's marks). The rest of you have some very fine examples as well - thanks for sharing.

    I am very interested in not only the coin, but the legend/myth of Marsyas as well. Recently I picked up this book by Jocelyn Penny Small called Cacus and Marsyas in Etrusco-Roman Legend - a scholarly work, she devotes a lot of space to the Censorinus denarius and the statue in the Forum that it was based on. In the back are excerpts of what must be every single ancient reference to Marsyas.

    She does make one mistake - she notes the Censorinus Marsyas as wearing a pileus - this is not the case, unless there is some variety I have not found. Crawford notes this error in numismatic references as well.

    A peculiarity of this issue is the use of control marks - this must be one of the most half-hearted efforts in Roman Republican coinage of using these. Very few dies were used with the control marks, the vast majority of these having no control marks at all. It's as if they started out with them and then said to heck with it.

    Here is Crawford (note the number of dies - the control mark issues are very small compared to the plain type):

    Marsyas Crawford RRC Censorinus (1).JPG

    To add to Doug's interesting examples, here is what I believe to be a barbaric imitation of this issue. The photo is from a European eBay auction - I was going to bid on it, but the price lofted beyond my ability to pay (note the retrograde N on the reverse):

    Censorinus Marsyas counterfeit UK auct. Jun 2017.jpg

    Censorinus Marsyas counterfeit UK auct. Jun 2017a.jpg
     

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