People who use E-bay as a Pricing Tool

If your a buyer or seller of coins It has become the norm for people to Grab their phones and go to e-bay and say "Well they sell on E-bay for $$$" but more and more I am finding Flaws...errors and Problems with using E-bay as a Pricing tool.

One thing I have found is "Buy it now" Coins that show up as Green saying they SOLD if you click the item..esp if your using a computer the item comes up as ENDED or UNSOLD which means the item didn't really sell. This can be very confusing. So then I started looking at items which Only Brought Bids..until one day I found about 2 pages of Common date Morgans in PCGS Holders Graded MS-63 which all sold with Multiple bids For $70 $80 even $100 and more. No fancy toning or errors just common date Morgans. I couldn't understand why they sold so high until I looked at the Shipping cost. All were listed as "Local Pickup ONLY" all by the same seller. I figured this was some type of scam as no one would pay that kind of money for a common coin and then travel hundreds of miles to pick it up.

Finally are coins that sell at a discount or % Off. The coin sells at a discount say 25% Off. But when you check the price after the item sells it shows it sold for Full Price. Below is a coin I bought and Paid $43.55 BUT the e-bay listing says it sold for $67 ! Again this could be used to try and scam a buyer telling them you paid more for the coin then you actually did.

Again I'd rather refer to the Greysheet then argue with people about what it sells for on E-bay.

SCMedic

What I paid for It


What E-Bay shows the Coin sold for:

 

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THANKS

 

I agree in part, many sellers will look at Ebay when selling and not look at completed sales just what items are listed for and the outliers really can inflate an items price. When someone likes to tell me that x is going for y on Ebay. I like to point out that for the average Joe selling on Ebay without a store or top seller discount that seller is also losing 13% of that valuation to fee's (10% to Ebay, 3% to Paypal). It could be even higher if you add shipping/packaging costs if shipping is listed as free.


But you can avoid seeing completed but not actually sold listings if use advanced search features and click the check box for only sold listings. The problem with this though is buy it now will show as the listed price not the accepted price if someone made an offer lower than that price but by viewing the purchase history you can see the actual price
http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBidsLogin&item=332400102198&rmvSB=true

Really though it's like any tool and if you don't learn how to use it, it's not going to work to your advantage.

 

this site accelerates and automates the ebay advanced sales inquiry... It works off actual auction sales completed and does an average, also allows you to go to ebay and continue your analysis.
again, a good point is made in that the answers you get depend on the how detailed and meaningful the questions you ask:
http://uscoinval.com/home
DISCLAIMER:
it's a work in progress, definitely. Like if you don't specifically specify -NG -PCGS and you're looking for raw stuff? You get wild ranges. I'm trying to refine it.

And RIGHT, the lot listings are a pain in the butt. Working on it. LOVE the way you think. OH, and there are no sales, I don't know the future of this, I just knocked those sales related things off the menu. THANKS.

If you have ideas? Let me know. I imagine I have to do a custom page with drop downs and GOOD instructions to construct a really meaningful query, as most people don't know the additional extended / advanced options available to us.

THAT's a little work. But WORTH it I beieve. I also have tools that do this for NGC AND PCGS autcion sales but they are FAR behind in development. Ideally, the ultimate tool would combine them ALL in one presentation. Not gonna happen today, BUT? I'm tryin'. Ha. In the meantime?

HOPE I DID NOT OFFEND. This is NOT a commercial effort.

 

While that site can certainly be useful the first thing right off the bat that I noticed is for example coin if you use the example in the image. Is that you'll see that their code search string is likely taking all listings of '1879 s morgan silver dollar ngc ms63' if you click through to see the actual results it's aggregating and averaging on Ebay (which I recognize you stated to do and continue your research. Also I'm not sure if you're pushing CT rules regarding self promotion considering the site has an area for sales, even though it doesn't have any listed currently) but how many others would just take the values listed with no research?.

So while it will give you an average it's getting really getting throw off by listings where multiple coins are listed in a lot or proof like coins which don't get excluded as seen below. So again while it's a very nice tool you have to be careful just accepting it as is. For instance below and these weren't the only multi group lots or PL coins that were included in the averaging they were just the first 3 I grabbed. But how much do you think just these three listing outliers work towards inflating the average value of the example coin a '1879 s morgan silver dollar ngc ms63'? I didn't actually average it out but I'd guess at least $15-$20

 

I agree with you 100%. I always used the Greysheet, and when I eventually sold all of my certified Morgan dollars (about 150), I made a nice profit even though all were listed at "99c, No Reserve".

However, I never argued with any seller. I may have haggled a bit, but I never argued.

Chris

 

Oh, it's a work in progress, definitely. Like if you don't specifically specify -NG -PCGS and you're looking for raw stuff? You get wild ranges. I'm trying to refine it.

And RIGHT, the lot listings are a pain in the butt. Working on it. LOVE the way you think. OH, and there are no sales, I don't know the future of this, I just knocked those sales related things off the menu. THANKS.

If you have ideas? Let me know. I imagine I have to do a custom page with drop downs and GOOD instructions to construct a really meaningful query, as most people don't know the additional extended / advanced options available to us.

THAT's a little work. But WORTH it I beieve. I also have tools that do this for NGC AND PCGS autcion sales but they are FAR behind in development. Ideally, the ultimate tool would combine them ALL in one presentation. Not gonna happen today, BUT? I'm tryin'. Ha. In the meantime?

HOPe I DID NOT OFFEND. This is NOT a commercial effort.
http://uscoinval.com/home

 

The Greysheet IS a commercial effort though, and costs money. I know you're not likely benefitting from mentioning or suggesting it here, but it seems a bit hypocritical to criticize this effort for bending CoinTalk rules. That was a mistake on my part which I have corrected. No biggie though, I understand your point. Greysheet is marvelous, but it costs money, AND it is a static picture unless you pay for each update if I understand it correctly. The average collector, whether deemed SERIOUS or not, might have a passion for the hobby, but not the budget that can justify spending extra money on other things than the actual coins besides the basics.

 

You can use ebay to support about any price you want to justify both as a buyer and a seller. There are high and low outliers for sales. If you take a few minutes for common items you can get a really good idea of what are outliers and what is more accurate.

I was at a LCS a year ago to just unload a commem I had no interest in to use towards a new purchase there. I knew exactly what they were selling for they were consistently $80-85 which a huge sample size. I would have taken $40-50 or so for the convenience to unload it right there. He prints out an ebay sale from a few months back where one went for $32 or something way low that was an outlier and wanted to offer based on that. I could have probably found one for $120 if I wanted. Of course the truth was in the middle.

 

THE TRUTH IS IN THE MIDDLE.
Absolutely. Give that man a Cigar. NO, not from the humidor, one shelf lower perhaps...
We STILL have to put the work in, but automated tools IF we know how to use them CAN help.
This story illustrates the value of tools and how to use them being important....

Years ago, my dad used to tell a joke about an old wood cutter who bought his first chainsaw after years of cutting wood by hand with a cross-cut saw. After a few days he returned it to the dealer and said that his “old way was better”. He said that the chainsaw was heavy, awkward, and clumsy…and he actually cut LESS wood with it in a day than he did with his old cross cut saw. Now my dad was a bit of a story teller, so at this point my father would send the poor wood cutter out earlier and earlier every morning for a week for a week as the chainsaw dealer PROMISED him that it was IMPOSSIBLE to cut less wood with a gasoline powered chainsaw than it was by hand with a manual cross-cut saw. (Yeah…I know, this really is not the funniest “joke”…but my dad loved it, and I am actually coming to a point) Finally, the disgusted wood-cutter brings the chainsaw back and demands a refund because he STILL is not able to cut as much wood as he had before with just the power of his arms. Just before the Chainsaw salesman returns his money he starts the chainsaw up to make SURE that it is still functioning properly (my dad would have made the chainsaw sound here) which made the old wood cutter yell out…wait for it…wait for it…this is the punchline: “WHAT’S THAT SOUND?” “WHAT’S THAT SOUND?”

 

Yes, the Greysheet does cost money, but for a collector who wants the best information, it's much better to rely on buy & sell prices that dealers use. I do not care to rely on prices that may or may not be influenced by bidiots. Further, in my opinion, paying for the Greysheet enabled me to save more on my purchases which, in turn, effectively reduced the cost of the periodical, itself.

Chris

 

Bidiots. I like that.
I can't disagree with you at all, but it sounds like you are a collector with a few years under the belt and of broader financial means than say a kid who is still looking through bank rolls and pocket change for his level of cherrypicking and "finds." That young collector's excitement over finding a 1940's Silver Quarter is likely much greater than yours or mine. He owns no slabbed coins, and likely no truly rare ones. He also looks to this forum for advice from older and more experienced people like you. Thankfully, he gets thoughtful answers, as you give, qualifying them with detailed examples and circumstances under which it IS preferable to use something like the Greysheet.

 

eBay sales are far more accurate. They're also free and greysheet was always intended to be dealer prices not collector retail prices.

Exactly, user error will ruin any method which doesn't invalidate the method

 

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/if_all_you_have_is_a_hammer,_everything_looks_like_a_nail

 

I understand that the cost of the Greysheet may be beyond the means of younger collectors. May I suggest that for those kids who do buy certified coins, instead of asking his/her parents for a PlayStation or some other expensive item for Christmas, that he/she ask for a one or two year subscription for the Greysheet.

Chris

 

Just tried out your site. Pretty cool!

 

I just looked up "sold" 1881-s morgans, and yours is showing as selling for $43.55. Not sure where you are finding the wrong info.

 

It's worth posting this link again:

http://www.watchcount.com/#serp

Enter the number for a closed BIN/Best Offer auction, and it will take you to a page showing the actual price accepted (you may have to click through one more link). It seems to do this by leveraging non-US eBay sites, which can still display US auctions but apparently have a different policy for revealing offers. (For some auctions, you can even see a history of rejected offers!)

I expect eBay will shut down this loophole sooner or later, but I'm using it while I can.

 

I think they would have already if the cared/could. They may not know how to, or it may be part of the terms of operating in one of those other country sites.