Indo-Greek coin: A little bit Indian, a little bit Greek

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Parthicus, Nov 3, 2017.

  1. Parthicus

    Parthicus Well-Known Member

    I won this coin a few weeks ago in the $15 "bargain bin" section of a John Anthony auction:
    Philoxenos.jpg
    Indo-Greek Kingdom. Philoxenos (c. 100-95 BC). AE Square Unit (Hemi-obol?) (20x18mm, 7.8g). Obverse: Goddess (Demeter?) standing left, holding cornucopia, legend in Greek around "Basileos Aniketou Philoxenou" (Of the Invincible King, Philoxenos). Reverse: Humped bull (zebu) standing right, legend in Kharoshthi around "Maharajasa apadihatasa Philasinasa" (same as Greek legend). SNG ANS 1209, Mitchiner ACW 1960-1.

    Briefly, this coin exists because of Alexander the Great. Alexander's easternmost conquest was Bactria, a region very roughly equivalent to the core of modern Uzbekistan. After Alexander's death and the breakup of his empire, Bactria remained under the control of the Seleucids until about 250 BC, when it broke off as an independent kingdom under the control of a Greek king. The expanding Parthian kingdom soon left Bactria cut off from direct contact with the rest of the Greek world, although some indirect trade probably continued. In the second and first centuries BC, further Greek kingdoms broke off and spread south from Bactria, into what is now northern Pakistan and Afghanistan, in what is now referred to as the Indo-Greek kingdoms. There were multiple simultaneous kingdoms, and the chronology is poorly understood. The Indo-Greeks survived until the start of the first century AD, when the last kings were conquered by the expanding Indo-Scythians.

    Few historical documents have survived that explain Indo-Greek history; much of our knowledge is based on analysis of their coins. Philoxenos (whose name means "lover of foreigners") seems to have ruled in the Punjab around 100-95 BC, although Robert Senior places him at c.125-110 BC. As usual, his coins portray a mix of Greek and Indian themes. The obverse uses the Greek language and a recognizably Greek-style goddess, while the reverse is inscribed in Kharoshthi script (used to write the Pali language) and shows a humped bull, a symbol of Shiva in the Hindu religion. It is not known if the kings remained ethnically Greek the whole time, or intermarried with the local population, but clearly they wanted to appeal to both Hellenistic and Indian populations. Square coins are common in the Indo-Greek series, mainly in the bronzes but also for some silver issues. This is hardly a gem coin but at $15, it was a good buy with plenty of historical interest, and I plan to look for some more cool Indo-Greek treasures. Please post your relevant coins. (I'll be disappointed if @Sallent doesn't post his elephant-zebu coin.)
     
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  3. Sallent

    Sallent Live long and prosper

    I sold it to another member of this forum. But here it is one last time by popular request.

    Bactrian Drachm.jpg
     
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  4. John Anthony

    John Anthony Ultracrepidarian

    I appreciate the history, thank you! I'd buy a truckload of these interesting coins in gem condition if I could find them, but those are very few and far between. Yours is actually much better than most, believe me. I was offered a small hoard of BC Indian coins a few months ago, from which your specimen came, and at least half of the coins were culls - just corroded, unreadable little blobs.
     
  5. Deacon Ray

    Deacon Ray Well-Known Member

    The Greek cultural influence on the eastern civilizations is fascinating. The square coins of the Greek-Indo-Scythian kingdoms are great examples of the artistic styles of east and west coming together to form something entirely new.

    ISK.jpg
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2017
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  6. greekandromancoins

    greekandromancoins Well-Known Member

    Baktria_Apollodotos_I_Drachm_Sear7591var_1.jpg I am almost embarrassed to post immediately after what is an exceptional poster-like display by Deacon Ray above...

    Here is my coin which is a variant to Salient's. I have at least a couple others from when I bought a bulk lot of indo-greek coins a decade ago.

    SNG Copenhagen 335

    Peter
     
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  7. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    Nice @Parthicus !

    Indo-Greek - Baktria:

    SQUARES:
    Baktria Greco-Baktrian Kingdom Eukratides I Megas 170-145 BCE Dioscuri AE Quadruple Unit.JPG
    Baktria Greco-Baktrian Kingdom Eukratides I Megas 170-145 BCE Dioscuri AE Quadruple Unit

    Title has been conveyed
    Baktria Apollodotos I 180-160 BCE Square AR Drachm 20mm 2.4g Elephant Zebu SNG ANS 324-327.JPG
    Baktria Apollodotos I 180-160 BCE Square AR Drachm 20mm 2.4g Elephant Zebu SNG ANS 324-327


    CIRCLES:

    upload_2017-11-3_20-11-14.png
    Indo-Greek Baktria Menander I Soter BC 155-130 AR Tet 26mm 9.6g Diad - Athena Alkidemos tbolt Gorgon shield SNG ANS 764-767

    upload_2017-11-3_20-12-3.png
    INDO-GREEK KINGDOM Zoilos II Circa 50-40 BCE AR drachm 17mm 2.3g Athena Alkidemos l monograms Antony Actium SNG ANS 1654-1658

    India Indo-Scythian King Azes I 57-30BCE AR Drachm.JPG
    India Indo-Scythian King Azes I 57-30BCE AR Drachm
     
  8. ominus1

    ominus1 Well-Known Member

    Kool coin(and coins) and write up!
     
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  9. greekandromancoins

    greekandromancoins Well-Known Member

    Here is my favourite Menander from my collection. It still could be cleaned further but I decided not to. You could say it still has its "find patina". All details are razor sharp. Menander_Drachm_5_sear7602.jpg
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2017
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  10. dadams

    dadams Well-Known Member

    Nice coin @Parthicus! I don't have any Indo-Greek yet, but I did pick up this Indo-Scythian back in August.
    [​IMG]
    Indo-Scythian dynasty of the Apracharajas. Vijayamitra. 12 BC - 15 AD. AR Tetradrachm.
    King with horse / Pallas standing. Senior.175.250TD.


    I actually had just pulled it out earlier this week to try to more fully attribute it but information seems to be somewhat hard to come by and I don't have the Senior or Mitchiner volumes (yet).
     
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  11. chrsmat71

    chrsmat71 I LIKE TURTLES!

    That's a cool new coin @Parthicus , I have one as well!

    102_5181_zpsl862qht6.jpg

    Mine is a bit rough and had a spot of BD, so far I have kept it at bay since my original treatment.

    I was experimenting with the background to use for this coin photo, and nothing seemed to work. I settled for gray.

    Here's a sweet background TIF made me!

    ChrsmatRainbow_zpsa677e074.jpg

    GROOVY!
     
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  12. THCoins

    THCoins Well-Known Member

    Nice coins all ! I am also intersted in this area because of its position as a borderland between different cultures. As an illustration two coins:

    The first is a Tetradrachm issued under Indo-Greek king Heliokles I (ca 145-130BC).
    The Hellenistic roots are clear in the design of this coin i think.
    HelioklesWeb.jpg

    Second is also a tetradrachm featuring Heliokles I. But now from some decades later when the nomadic Yuezhi from north-western China had invaded, and taken over control, of the area. The Yuezhi adopted quite some of the Hellenistic culture, including the coinage. The coin below is a Yuezhi imitation of the Heliokles tetradrachm above. The winged thunderbolt of Zeus has been upscaled a bit in the process.
    HelioklesScytImitWeb.jpg
     
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  13. Theodosius

    Theodosius Fine Style Seeker

    I like these Indo-Greek coins a lot too. They have interesting devices, inscriptions and history.

    Menander I AE 1a.jpg
    Kings of Bactria. Menander I (c. 166/55-130 BC).
    AE square Unit (13mm, 2.64 g).
    Obverse: BΑΣΙΛΕΩΣ ΣΩTHPOΣ MENANΔPOΣ, head of elephant right wearing bell around neck.
    Reverse: Legend in Karoshti around club.
    References: Mitchiner 134, Type 239.

    Bactria Eucradides I Tet 1La.jpg
    Kingdom of Batria, Eucratides I ‘the Great’, 170-145 BC
    AR Tetradrachm, 16.91g, 34mm
    Obverse: Diademed and draped bust of Eucratides right wearing broad-brimmed Bactrian helmet, ad and reel border.
    Reverse: BAΣIΛEΩΣ MEΓAΛOY EYKPATIΔOY, the Dioscuri on rearing horses to right, each holding a palm, monogram beneath horses to right.
    References: Bopearachchi Série 6E variant (monogram on right).
    Ex. 1980s collection, Ex James Beach

    John
     
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  14. Ed Snible

    Ed Snible Well-Known Member

    This drachm has a very low weight suggesting that it is "crystalized" internally. The surfaces are good, though black. I purchased it at the ANA show in NYC, the last time the ANA was in NYC, in 2002.

    s7601.jpg
    Indo-Greek, Menander I (165-135 BC), 1.5g drachm

    Wikipedia has a page on a famous debate that has come down to us between Menander and Buddhist sage Nāgasena. Has anyone read it? (I have not). Somehow Menander was able to bring together the ideas and ethics of Europe with the ideas of India and Pakistan. He ended up a Buddhist!

    It is a pity that today the US/European coalition cannot find a way to verbally engage and instead dispatches drones to the same region.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milinda_Panha
     
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  15. Deacon Ray

    Deacon Ray Well-Known Member

    Beautiful coin, Theodosius! Great choice for an avatar thumbnail!
     
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  16. THCoins

    THCoins Well-Known Member

    Would this have been a "Mir Zakah hoard" coin ? Many of these have similar low weights, but the surface if often a bit flakey.
     
  17. Theodosius

    Theodosius Fine Style Seeker

    Thanks Ray, it is a real handful of silver. A very broad flan with golden highlights around the devices.
     
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  18. randygeki

    randygeki Coin Collector

    Great coins all!
     
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  19. Ed Snible

    Ed Snible Well-Known Member

    I purchased this from a Swedish dealer who had a box with over 100 Menander drachms. I was a new collector and didn't know I was supposed to ask about find spots. I purchased the example above because it seemed to be in high grade. Most of the coins had better color. Here is another from the same box:

    menander-aegis-both.jpg
    Menander drachm 16mm
    Obv: ΒΑΣΙΛΕΩΣ ΣΩΤΗΡΟΣ ΜΕΝΑΝΔΡΟΥ; Menander with an aegis over his shoulder.
    Rev: Maharajasa tratarasa Menamdrasa; Athena with an aegis over her arm.

    I believe it is too late to trace it back to a specific hoard.
     
  20. Deacon Ray

    Deacon Ray Well-Known Member

    This is a great thread that you have created, Parthicus!

    My interest in the Indo-Scythian coins was originally fueled by the big coin dealers (I won't mention their names. I don't want any ill will to be directed at them because they have been very cordial and kind with me over the years) but anyway the Indo-Scythian coins are being marketed toward non-collectors as “Coins of the Wise Men” or coins that may have been used as “Gifts to the Christ Child” I know it's a stretch but it is a charming story. Here's one of my early purchases (Still entombed and I may leave it that way because of the rather high grade that my NGC friends have bestowed upon it) I have several of these. They were originally packaged in cases that featured graphic images of the camel riding Wise Men.—I'm not going to criticize this well known company for marketing them this way (in Wise Men Boxes etc.) We come to ancients collecting in many different ways and the Biblical Relic strategy which many companies use, was the way I was lured in. Anyway my interest in ancients has definitely been fueled by exposure to the many varieties and ideas of the Ancients Forum members here—and the awesome knowledge and specialization of the Forum members—not to mention—you're a cool bunch of guys to hang out withso in conclusion—I'm glad I'm here! It takes what it takes whether its Biblical Relic hype or some other avenue.

    AZESPOST.jpg
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2017
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