Should the United States bring back the 2-cent piece?

I understand your point but strongly disagree.

The biggest problem is THAT IT"S IMPOSSIBLE TO MAKE CHANGE.

More importantly really is that two cents is too small a unit of change to be concerned with. Personally I wouldn't mind a little 2 1/2c coin about the size of the penny but our educational system has failed so badly that many people couldn't figure out how to use it, so this isn't an option either.

The only rational solution is to eliminate the cent and cheapen the nickel. Aluminum would again be my metal of choice but most people in this country act like they're alergic to aluminum so this probably wouldn't fly either. Zinc is out because it would get stuck in baby's GI tract and there would be dozens of deaths each year. Stainless steel or nickel plated steel would probably be the way it would go.

 

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2 cent back to collectors

the mint should bring back 2 cent to collectors. maybe even the 1/2 cent too.

 

BUT, with a "half dollar-size" dollar coin AND a two dollar bill, things won't be that tough.
I have dealt with silver dollars being in standard use (Montana 1960; Alaska 1963.)
Yep, silver dollars would definitely make you lean to one side.
But half dollars and two dollar bills, I think not.

 

There is a problem with this idea...

If we get rid of the 1 cent, and put a 2 cent in, we have the 5 cent that makes things uneven.

Example:

total comes to 4.59 (still possible with a 5c and 2 2cents)
you give them 4.60 - and then what?
they'll probably just round when it comes to 9's.

7's would be rounded to 8, 3 would be rounded to...? 4? No, because then if the total was 4.54, and you gave them 4.55 - then what?

a 2 cent piece, without the 1 cent, would cause too many problems with rounding and stuff.

 

Appearently either people refuse to admit that they are bad in rounding figures and do require more practise in mathematics or just being ignorant with the fact that they wish to waste more money.

Australia and New Zealand removed the 1 and 2 cents back in 1989 or so and I don't find it an issue. Unlike what most people exaggerate about how much loss there can possibly be during rounding, don't be mistaken - the rounding is done at the very very end of the gas / grocery, etc bill. Unlike what most people believe, it does not affect electronic transfer so you can pay by exact cents by card if you like. You can still buy a liter milk at 1.99 at grocery store and that is not rounded until your total comes out to be so. Things are still priced as in cents so if you bulk buy, it's the very last bill that is rounded off.

I.e if you buy 1000 bottles of milk, they aren't rounded up (i.e. to 2 dollars) and the total comes out to be 2000. No, the total is just $1990. If you just wish to buy 1, then it's 2 dollars.

Here are examples of rounding off:

0.40 -> 0.40
0.41 -> 0.40
0.42 -> 0.40
0.43 -> 0.45
0.44 -> 0.45
0.45 -> 0.45
0.46 -> 0.45
0.47 -> 0.45
0.48 -> 0.50
0.49 -> 0.50

and you get the idea.

Tell me, if you dare to say that you are making 2 cents loss when you make purchases that end with a 8, how many transactions do you have to make in order to gain even a dollar? 50 transactions? Ok, do you even make that much grocery transactions in a month? Chances are, you are more likely to lose dollars when prices of goods jack up or make better deals during discounts. Heck, if you think this is dumb, you can pay by cards or checks and pay exact cents with no roundings.

 

I guess it comes down to why should there be a give and take exchange system if there doesn't have to be. I work hard for my money, even the two cents per purchase, which would add up quite quickly over time, so why should I have to give a business more money than they deserve for my purchase? The same applies to the business, who may just lose a few cents per customer if it's rounded down, but over a period of time, that adds up to a lot of lost cash.
Nobody benefits, besides the federal government. And, considering how much I'm raked over the coals with taxes, I'm not a bit interested in saving the government so much as a dime, much less two cents.
If they want to save money, they should manage their budgets properly, first and foremost.
Guy~

 

There is NO net gain or loss to anybody by rounding.

The government already allows rounding to the NEAREST DOLLAR on income taxes. Do you really believe they would allow this if they were going to lose money?

All that's needed to round to the nearest nickel is to recalculate sales taxes so they kick in in 5c increments and to just do it. There is no loss, no gain, just a much simpler and cleaner world that doesn't involve corroded and toxic slugs.

Since the consumer is the one who controls total purchase, he is the one to whom any possible benefits would accrue. How many people will keep a running total of their purchases and the tax so that they can round down a penny or two? Virtually no one. The sole exception might be at the gas pump where you can try to end up at one, two, six or seven cents so it's rounded down. This might cost the typical gasoline seller a dollar or two per day. In an era of $10,000+ daily sales, they probably won't be overly concerned.

 

Arrghh, in this scenario, I said that the 1 cent would still be made.

 

oh alright.

its still a hassle though. lol

 

Well, you said there was yourself, when you said if the purchase amount came to say $5.63, I would have to shell out an additional two cents to round the total up. How is that not a loss on my part? Two cents per purchse doesn't seem like much on an individual basis, but over time it will add up to a lot of unnecesary expense.
Maybe I'm just cheap, but I don't like to give out more money than is required for a purchase.
Guy~

 

Not to be agressive, but please explain, I'm actually very curious. This thread is veering off to another keep the penny/abolish the penny debate. I would like more comments on the pros and cons of this alternate scenario.

But while we are talking about the keep the penny/abolish the penny debate, I'm on the side of the keepers. We can always make the penny out of cheaper material. Furthermore, in a decimal currency system I believe that monetary units should be rounded off to a decimal, not a fraction (5 cents being 1/20 of a dollar).

 

The law of averages says that for just about every time you round up two cents you'll round down two cents. Every time you round up one cent you round downb one cent. The rest of the time is dead even. There is no NET loss or gain. At the end ofthe year no one in the country is ahead or behind more than about 50c and even this averages out. As time goes by you'll regress toward the mean; even.

 

The cost of fabrication is probably over one cent for any metal. There is no material cheap enough when you add in the cost of making the coin.

More importantly the fact still remains that it costs more to use a penny than to round off. There is still a loss of time and effort even if pennies were free. Even if the metal were free and it was made into a coin for free it's still a waste of space. Many things are priced in 1/3 or 1/10 cent. Are we next going to look for a material to make .1, .333..., and .23 cent coins to even out purchases? Where does it end? The Lincoln was a lot of money when it started back in 1909. It is far less than the lowest common denominator now. There are no consumer goods that cost less than about 8.5c any longer so why have a coin that is needed in piles to buy the cheapest item in the world? This is the 21st century and gumballs cost a quarter now.

 

Sorry cladking but this is just plain silly. So we just recalculate sales tax? Okay, I can almost live with that one it would balance out in the long run I suppose - but nickels add up even faster tnan cents and believe me a LOT of people do watch that.

As for you gasoline seller point it's ridiculous. THEY DO CARE. No business sets out to lose ANY money and gas stations are probably one of the worst. I know from experience.

Let's assume a gas station loses $1 a day 365 days a year. Okay, simple math. Now let's assume it's a chain that has 100 stores (and that's not uncommon). Now you're talking $36,500 a year. That's a managers salary for a year in many cases and some make less than that.

These people are out to make money. They don't look at it as day to day. It's month to month and year to year. If they see a $36,000 or more hit they want to rectify it.

 

Yup,

Now all we have to do is convince every American eating Pork n Beans out of a can of that.
Don't see that happening.

 

With sales of $10,000 per day they can just raise prices .001% to make up for the loss caused by people who stop filling just below the cut-off point. Let's try to keep this in a real world perspective. The annual inflation rate as reported by the bls is two thousand times this level.

 

Agreed.

One day, it's $5.63 rounded up to $5.65 - I'm out 2c. An hour later, a purchase is $10.92 - rounded down, and I'm break even.

Over the years it all evens out.

But there's a bigger issue -

The vast majority of money changing hands has nothing to do with cash or coinage. It's 99.9% virtual money - checks, credit cards, electronic transfers, etc. All of those transactions can be handled with 1c precision.

So the entire issue of pennies, 2c pieces, practically vanishes in the Big Picture.

Much ado about almost nothing.

 

Cladking,

It's not that I really disagree with you when one gets right down to it. Your "ciphering" is good for covering the loss but any business I've ever worked in (and it's been more than gas stations) don't look at a price increase as a way to "cover loss".

They tend to look at covering loss as just eliminating it. They raise prices all of the time but only to make MORE money. Let's face it greed is a driving force unfortunately.

As you stated earlier it would all balance out. Law of averages as it were. Plus most folks wouldn't figure out the "cut off" point anyway.

This thread has taken a weird tangent. Why'd you suck me into it?