1984 mint error questions with pic

How's this theory sound,,,
One die break AND one coin break, the coin stuck in the obverse die and the reverse die broke. Would explain about everything, wouldn't it?

 

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No, that's not it at all. There is no such thing as a coin break. The reason you see the sunken portion of the obverse design is because all the metal rushed into the die break on the reverse. I have a coin that shows a smaller cud with a similar effect. If you look up pictures of cuds, most will have this same effect. Metal flow can cause some very strange things on coins.

To make it a little clearer, coins are not molten when struck. In fact, the dies do not stamp the images into the coins per se, but in reality, the coin metal is forced up into the design of the die. This means that when there is a large die break, the coin metal will flow into the recessed area, while simultaneously causing an indent on the opposite side. It is actually apparent in every major die break, thus carries no extra value, aside from that of the die break itself. In other words, what appears as two errors is actually just one.

 

TheBigH

I whole-heartedly accept your appologies,,, you gonna bid up the coin so that I can buy a 3 bedroom ranch in the east indies? :whistle: Beach side Manila Bay please,,,

I owe you a bit of gratitude, as thick headed as I am, I was bound and determined to prove you wrong,,, and you were the driving force for me to find this:

http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=411&Lot_No=9923&src=pr

Which proved to me beyond yet another shadow of a doubt that I had a real mint error (after torching a couple pennies "just in case").

I guess I portrayed a "guilty" type manner, but I was sincerely unknowning what the value of the coin was, actually I still don't know because the other coin sold during the week of the 4th of July which is historically a slow coin selling time.

I don't think you have betrayed your principles because, I'm sure that there are alot of fake coins on the market, and as such one needs to take the guilty until proven innocent approach, and you must admit, you're as

"insistently thick-skinned" as myself,,, that's good right???



Marty

 

Yes, it's always good to be skeptical, but I probably went over the line and became brash and disagreeable, unlike the actions of a true error coin enthusiast. Still though, what's done is done, and I'm at least glad the coin is authentic, so it's not another fake coin out there circulating.

Also, although your coin is very interesting and (nearly) unique, I don't buy error coins as a rule. To me, the fun is in finding them, not necessarily owning them. You may think it's impossible to find anything good in rolls of change, but I've actually probably found about $200-$250 in error coins so far! Not to mention numerous minor errors, dozens of wheat cents, lots of Canadian and other foreign and too many interesting man made alterations to mention! Not really a profitable hobby, but fun nonetheless.

Well, without boring you with any more of my hobbies and findings, I'll wish you good luck with your auction, and nice find, by the way.

 

TheBigH
I cannot say that you are wrong with the single broken die theory. I see no evidence of anything striking the observe in the depression.

Now, do you have any ideas on the extra rim on this coin. Inspection of the certified coin seems to reveal the same extra rim, but probably not as pronounced.

 

I have no theories pertaining to 'extra metal' on the rim, other than the possibility of a collar break. I believe that collar breaks are possible, and this could be evidence that the next few coins would have been broadstruck. I have no evidence of this, however, so it's still up to speculation. I will add, however, that I've seen numerous coins from the mid 1980's with similar errors. For some reason, quality control standards at the mint seem to have been unusually low. Most of the modern cuds in existence come from this era, from what I've seen.

 

I weighed the coin and it showed 2.5 grams on my scale,,, isn't that .1 grams LESS then normal?

 

Well, if it weighs less than normal, I don't think that has anything to do with this error, because there's actually no metal missing from your coin, it's just in a different spot than normal. I tend to believe that the coin might also have been the victim of post mint damage, as well as an error. Just a guess, though.

 

:headbang::headbang::headbang::headbang::headbang::headbang:

 

I hate to say this.....but can you post some details on this

BTW---Just something to heat the pot---Some of the leading Error dealers have said in the past that it is not a good idea to put much trust in ANACS when it comes to being right on errors. ANACS has slabbed fake coins, and mis-labled errors with the wrong name.

Speedy

 

OK you got me on that one, I have no idea when the historically slow nuministic coins sales occur, but I have no idea why someone would pay $1800 for a shiny 1965 penny either.

AS far as ANACS goes, I seriously doubt they are wrong with this one. I could see someone "faking" a coin and not be able to sell it, but "faking" two, or maybe, just maybe, this is a conspiracy and he made 3, knowning the first would be highly challenged and scrutinized, the second one sold would verify the authenticity of the first one, and that the third will command the highest price,,, and this scoundral, well he's lurking in the background reading this thread and not posting a word, simply basting in an evil laughter waiting to strike it rich with his one in a million coins,,, thus being able to buy a bungelow in east indies,,, (I kinda like that saying)

I want to believe that there are only two of these coins and someone last year got an awesome deal just because they were into "error coins" before the sheeple discovered this area of coin collecting. Gold, meanwhile was running in the $575 range.

 

When you state "the coin metal is forced up into the design of the die" Ok there's an obverse die and a reverse die, which one pushes the planchet into which die? I'm assuming that the coin minting process mints both sides at the same time,,,

And while we're at it, I assume the copper cladding is applied before the penny is struck, but it's so thin, why doesn't the zinc come through in spots?

And finally, why would anyone pay $1800 for a shiny 1965 penny?

 

They both do. (there's actually 3 dies -- the third being the collar.) The hammer die approaches the anvil die. The planchet is between them (and surrounded by the collar die). The raised parts of the die (the field on the coin) presses into the planchet. The metal of the planchet has nowhere to go except into the recesses of the die -- thus "blooming" the design. The raised parts of the coin get their metal from where the fields were compressed.

 

When I say post-mint damage, I mean that an actual error left the mint, and then got post-mint damage later. That doesn't mean your error is fake, just damaged.

As for your other questions, adelv is correct about the dies, and I believe the coins are plated after being punched into blanks, but before being struck. Not really sure, though.

And to answer your last question, I'll respond with another question. Why would anyone pay as much as $100,000 for someone elses mistake (aka mint error)? It's based on supply and demand. There are evidently very few dimes in whichever grade it is you're reffering to, and there's plenty of people who want. Small supply, big demand, bigger prices.

 

post a link and maybe we can tell you why.....

Speedy

 

Here's a link

http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=411&Lot_No=7269&src=pr

 

Looks like because it is such a high grade. You see neither NGC or PCGS has graded any higher than that one and they have graded less than 15 with that grade of MS68RED SMS. So if you have 25 collectors out there trying to get the best set of Cents, and only 11 coins with that grade...you will have high prices paid.

Speedy

 

I don't fully understand the grading system, too complicated for my simple mind. Then there's how many different systems? Thank good there's only metric and English that I have to deal with. As far as PM's forget grains, I'm not even going to bother trying to remember how many grains to the gram, I proud to be able to remember that there are 31.1 grams to the ounce,,,

 

That is interesting. There are 28.34 in my system. I do not usually use the Troy ounce - unless I am working in silver.

 

I don't usually weigh things unless they're either troy or pounds