How much does a coin worth if it's graded

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by ibuycoinsoffebay, Oct 19, 2017.

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  1. SilverWilliesCoinsdotcom

    SilverWilliesCoinsdotcom Well-Known Member

    I saw an article just today as a matter of fact that went through the history of NGC holders and then I believe they were over 20 different variations so far.
     
    SilverWilliesCoinsdotcom, Oct 21, 2017
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  3. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    Most likely
     
    baseball21, Oct 21, 2017
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  4. maddurfee

    maddurfee Boy Wonder

    Slabbed and graded does not prove actual condition. I've had alot of coins graded by pcgs and only a few were correct on the grade. Most of the coins dont get the grade they should. I think its to control the population in the price guide. It sucks because Im trying to make it full time buying, grading, and selling coins but its impossible with improper grading.
     
    maddurfee, Oct 21, 2017
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  5. SilverWilliesCoinsdotcom

    SilverWilliesCoinsdotcom Well-Known Member

    anytime there's profit at stake, there will be temptation to compromise integrity. who regulates the TPGers?
     
    SilverWilliesCoinsdotcom, Oct 21, 2017
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  6. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    Everyone understands that no company is perfect, but when someone thinks that the majority of their coins are under-graded it usually isn't the TPG grading that needs improvement.
     
    baseball21, Oct 21, 2017
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  7. maddurfee

    maddurfee Boy Wonder

    Absolutely! Also, more than once, my coins have come back with scratched slabs right out of the box..
     
    maddurfee, Oct 21, 2017
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  8. maddurfee

    maddurfee Boy Wonder

    What do you suggest needs improvement?
     
    maddurfee, Oct 21, 2017
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  9. maddurfee

    maddurfee Boy Wonder

    Your statement made no sense. If the coins are not graded properly, the graders are the only ones in need of improvement. No one else is responsible for the grade.
     
    maddurfee, Oct 21, 2017
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  10. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    I'm saying that if someone has had a lot of coins graded by PCGS and only thinks a few are correctly graded and the majority are under-graded, it's more likely that PCGS grading mistakes isn't the reason why they think they
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2017
    baseball21, Oct 21, 2017
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  11. maddurfee

    maddurfee Boy Wonder

    Hmmm
     
    maddurfee, Oct 21, 2017
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  12. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    I agree with you on this point.

    But what about when somebody thinks that the majority of PCGS graded coins (those graded within the past 12-13 years anyway) are over-graded, even when based on the grading standards published by PCGS themselves ?

    Ya see, in that situation it's not a matter of opinion any more, or a lack of grading ability on the part of the person doing the thinking. It'a matter of their own published grading standards not being followed.
     
    GDJMSP, Oct 22, 2017
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  13. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    I think it's fine if someone wants to grade to their own different standard as long as they realize how their standard differs.

    I've never directly compared their book to their YouTube grading series, but if the YouTube series differs I would see that as a more modern amendment to the standards.

    I'm okay with that. As @V. Kurt Bellman has said in past threads grading standards can and do evolve. In all honesty given who one of the most prolific "researches" was before that time frame, I see the adjustments that have been made over the last decade more as returning back to facts and weeding out all the made up information that had infiltrated numismatics for a while. We certainly know more and have a much better factual basis of knowledge than we did when those standards were published.

    One example of that would be https://forums.collectors.com/discu...standing-liberty-heres-one-in-an-anacs-holder
     
    baseball21, Oct 22, 2017
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  14. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Oddly enough you're using the same argument that the TPGs themselves espouse - oh, we grade everything "differently" now because we've learned so much more than we used to know".

    Now I'll grant you that a lot of people have learned a lot of things since the turn of the century. But - none of those things have anything to do with how a coin should be graded. There hasn't been anything "new" learned about grading coins in over 30 years ! Especially when you consider that the only changes the TPGs have made in regard to grading is to loosen their grading standards and grade coins more leniently than they did before - every single time that they change their grading standards ! And make no mistake, they have changed them, loosened them, several times.

    Would it not be reasonable that if changing grading standards were based on "learning new knowledge" that it would go both ways ? That at least some coins would be graded more strictly, and that some would still be graded the same ?

    But that is not the case at all. Coins are being graded more leniently across the board. Coins that used to be 63s are 65s today, some of them are even 66s. Coins that used to be 64s are 66s or 67s today. Coins that used to be XF are AU today, and coins that used to be AU are MS today. And that is because the TPGs have suddenly "learned new knowledge" ?

    Coins with obvious wear on them do not suddenly become MS because somebody has learned something new. Coins covered with contact marks do not suddenly become MS65 because somebody has learned something new. Coins that are scratched, corroded, or otherwise damaged do not suddenly become gradable when they never were before because somebody learned something new.

    Gimme a break ! It's an excuse - nothing more. And a very poor one at that !
     
    GDJMSP, Oct 22, 2017
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  15. TopcatCoin

    TopcatCoin TC

    A coin whether graded or not is worth what someone will pay for it, unless it has sentimental value.
     
    TopcatCoin, Oct 22, 2017
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  16. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    We've learned more about strikes and quality in that time. I wouldn't say non of it should apply to grading, but more importantly we've unlearned some made up things too which I think is a big positive.

    That is reasonable and it has gone both ways. They're harder on PLs/Cams of all levels as one example.

    That's actually not true though and they are without question harder on certain aspects than ever before. They're tight and have been for a while. But more importantly if you're comparing to 10-20 years ago you're comparing a different scale. Like you mentioned about the strike quality of Lincolns over the years how they can't be compared, same for grading. The grades available today weren't all available to them back then.

    They do if they learned that "wear" was a strike weakness.
     
    baseball21, Oct 22, 2017
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  17. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    I guess that depends on who "we" is. I say that because when it comes to knowing which coins are well struck and which ones aren't - that's been known since the 1970s. And besides that, the TPGs don't even use quality of strike as a grading criteria - they never have.

    I can only assume, based on this and what you said previously on this matter, that when you say "made up things" you are referring to Breen's Encyclopedia. Small problem with that though, the book was first published in 1988 and by the early 90's every mistake in it was well and widely known.

    On this I just flat out disagree. Based on what I've seen they are more lenient.

    I'll be specific, the leniency in TPG grading began in 2004. They changed their grading standards literally overnight. And since then they have changed them a few more times. And on every occasion it was to loosen the standards.

    I don't know whether to just laugh out loud or cry ! Wear and strike weakness are two completely different things. And the TPGs know it, always have known it, just like any knowledgeable collector knows it - as well as how to tell one from the other.

    But I will grant you this, since 2004 the TPGs have routinely used the excuse on many coins that wear is not wear, but a weak strike. So yeah, they've learned how to do that alright ! And, they have learned how to say that wear caused by coins being in rolls, flips, coin albums etc is not wear either because of what caused it. Claiming that the only time wear "counts" or is really wear, is when it was caused as a result of a coin being in actual circulation. Of course they don't bother to tell anyone that there is absolutely no way one can be distinguished from the other, by anybody !

    So yeah, they've learned alright. They've learned how to lie and to come up with ridiculous excuses that a lot of the public will believe just because it is a TPG saying it !
     
    GDJMSP, Oct 22, 2017
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  18. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    We have without question learned more about coins and their processes since the 70s. There isn't a single thing in any aspect of life that our knowledge has not improved on in the last 50 years, or 30 years or 20 years.

    I think he did much more damage than just that work such as his letters about coins and really anything he was a part of. Why his work is even still considered legitimate at this point I will never understand.

    You would be in the minority on that belief.

    There is a way to tell cabinet wear which has been adjusted for. If a single/minimal high point shows it and none of the rest of the coin shows it do you really think it was circulating?
     
    baseball21, Oct 22, 2017
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  19. Clawcoins

    Clawcoins Damaging Coins Daily

    Ah yes, This remind me of the Congrats ASEs.
    The 2016 ASE Congrats in the box worth 30x the same coin Slabbed or the same coin not in the Congrats cardboard.
     
    Clawcoins, Oct 22, 2017
    #78 + Quote Reply
  20. maddurfee

    maddurfee Boy Wonder

    I have always used the photograde on pcgs' website. Its not like I grade my coins without using their guide. But if youll notice the coin pics on coinfacts are well over graded. When looking on pcgs' price guide, there is a button that allows you to "view the coin in coinfacts". Which makes you assume that that image is the one you compare your coin in hand to. So thsts a little tricky..
     
    maddurfee, Oct 23, 2017
    #79 + Quote Reply
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