A British Victory For Titus

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by David Atherton, Oct 18, 2017.

  1. David Atherton

    David Atherton Flavian Fanatic

    I fear the two captives will be regarded as a 'Judaea Capta' type by some long after I'm gone since it is erroneously listed in Hendin as such. But I think the evidence for it being a reference to a British Victory is pretty sound. Too bad the folks who consult Hendin will never know ...
     
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  3. Deacon Ray

    Deacon Ray Well-Known Member

    I'm a Hendinite but I'll gladly present your excellent alternative theory to all I meet ;)
     
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  4. David Atherton

    David Atherton Flavian Fanatic

    Well, that's all I can ask for!
     
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  5. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    @David Atherton Cool on the Captives and the Shields!

    ROMAN REPUBLIC CAPTIVES:

    RR Cloelius 98 BC Quin Jupiter F dots Victory Gaul captive Q Cr 332-1c S212.JPG
    RR Cloelius 98 BC Quin Jupiter F dots Victory Gaul captive Q Craw 332-1c Sear 212

    RR Gellius 138 BCE AR Den Roma wreath Mars fem captive Quad S 109 Cr 232-1.jpg
    RR Gellius 138 BCE AR Den Roma wreath Mars fem captive Quad Sear 109 Cr 232-1

    RR Aemilius Lepidus Paullus 62 BCE Concordia Perseus Macedon captive Sear 366 Craw 415-1.jpg
    RR Aemilius Lepidus Paullus 62 BCE Concordia Perseus Macedon captive Sear 366 Craw 415-1
     
  6. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    Here is a funky trophy:

    Capua was occupied by Hannibal at the time of this coin. This is a Trophy of defeated ROMAN REPUBLIC spoils for the Carthaginians:

    upload_2017-10-20_7-46-34.png
    Campania Capua 216-214 BC Æ Uncia 20.5mm 6.1g Laur hdJupiter r star value l Victory trophy star value r Monete 21 HN Italy 493
     
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  7. David Atherton

    David Atherton Flavian Fanatic

    That is a neat reverse!
     
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  8. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    I agree. This is why I enjoy the amazing conflict of two Titans in their day... It is fun to find the OTHER SIDE of History, such as defeated Roman arms in a trophy. Had Carthage won the 2nd Punic War, perhaps Western History may had been much different...

    Capua was promised to be the Capital of Italia upon his defeat of Rome...
    upload_2017-10-20_8-2-0.png
    Campania CAPUA AE 14-5mm 216-211 Hera Oscan Grain ear Hannibal capital Italia SNG Fr 517 SNG ANS 219 HN Italy 500 EE Clain Stefanelli
     
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  9. David Atherton

    David Atherton Flavian Fanatic

    The victors may write the history, but at least the defeated can still tell their story through their coins.
     
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  10. Mikey Zee

    Mikey Zee Delenda Est Carthago

    This off centered example of Paullus (Obverse Concordia) and the captive reverse featuring Paullus, King Perseus of Macedon and his sons seemed a cool buy at a budget price.

    RR paullus denarius concordia captive s.jpg
    RR paullus denarius, perseus captive rev.jpg
     
  11. Nemo

    Nemo Well-Known Member

    Some really cool captive and shield combinations. @dougsmit highlighted some great examples from Septimius Severus so I thought I would throw one into the mix.

    Here is a rare Caracalla mule with a reverse meant for Septimius Severus. These look like two different shields here as well.
    CaracallaYouthCapives.jpg
    Caracalla. AD 198-217. AR Denarius 19.5mm, 3.3 g. Rome mint. 201 / 202 AD.
    O: ANTONINVS PIVS AVG, Laureate and draped beardless young bust right
    R: PART MAX PM TR P X, trophy; at base, bound captive seated at either side.
    - RIC 322
    The workmen can be excused for mixing up the dies for in 201-202 exactly the same PART MAX Trophy type was being struck for both emperors, distinguished only by their titles in the continuation of the rev. legend, so easy to confuse:

    PART MAX P M TR P VIIII or X or X COS III P P for Septimius,

    PART MAX PONT TR P IIII or V or V COS for Caracalla.

    Two others from the same rev. die, but different obv. dies: RIC 322 = BMC p. 385, 163, pl. 64.13; and CClay collection from eBay, Jan. 2007.

    Another is reported by Cohen 174 (10 francs) from the Turin collection; and there were two more in the Reka Devnia hoard.

    And how about a bonafide Judea Capta Shield and Captive?
    VespVicAVG.jpg
    Vespasian, 69-79. Sestertius (Orichalcum, 34mm, 23.49 g 6), Rome, 71.
    O: IMP CAES VESPASIAN AVG P M TR P P P COS III Laureate head of Vespasian to right.
    R: VICTORIA AVGVSTI, S C in ex, Victory standing right, left foot set on helmet, writing on shield; in right field, mourning Judea seated beneath palm tree.
    - BMC 582. BN 560. Cohen 625. RIC 468. Ex Oblos webauction 3 11/15 lot 292, Astarte S.A. XIX '06 Lot 956, UBS Gold & Numismatics '06 Auction 64 lot 173, Auction Numismatica Genevensis 1, Geneva, 27 November 2000, lot 147.
     
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  12. David Atherton

    David Atherton Flavian Fanatic

    Fantastic coin!
     
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